Mac Silicon OS and VW

[Don Seidel 133]

21 hours ago, Mark Aceto said:

For context, it's stuff like this that keeps me from updating to the latest macOS release every year (and buying a Mac that will only run that brand new release):

 

https://www.fujitsu.com/global/support/products/computing/peripheral/scanners/scansnap/faq/bigsur-ss.html

 

 

FOR ANY SCANNER, Get VueScan ! A longtime pro App that works for countless scanner models, as good or better interface that the native software. We have run many legacy scanners for decades with VueScan. Frequent free updates, too. It's really all you'll ever need.

[zoomer 1,012]

On 11/18/2020 at 10:31 PM, JuanP said:

We received the first machine yesterday, a MacBook air, and we are starting testing immediately. I have heard good things so far, but we need to do more testing. Stay tuned!  

 

 

Any pre results ?

 

One user stated VW is running without problems via Rosetta.

[M5d 47]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=59gAjXT7qyw

 

Hope we get an ETA on a native version of Vectorworks with the evaluation of the M1 macs. I think the very low power draw of these chips is the most telling aspect of what's to come from Apple.      

Edited November 25, 2020 by M5d

[mike m oz 360]

That movie has made me reconsider what my next computer buy might be.  All of a sudden the humble Mac Mini looks like it might be a viable option.

 

I hope it is an option that Vw Inc. are looking at and that they are able to give us quick feedback.

[Pat Stanford 1,425]

Pure guess on my part, but I don't expect there will be a version of VW2021 released (except possibly to beta testers) that will be M1 native or even a universal binary. Too many possible things to go wrong to put it out for general consumption.

 

Another pure guess is that there is a version running in Maryland that is as close to a native M1 app as they can achieve based on the libraries they are using.

[Nicolas Goutte 78]

11 hours ago, M5d said:

Hope we get an ETA on a native version of Vectorworks with the evaluation of the M1 macs.

 

It mainly depends on the third party libraries VW uses, starting with Parasolid.

[elepp 77]

1 hour ago, Nicolas Goutte said:

 

It mainly depends on the third party libraries VW uses, starting with Parasolid.

Parasolid seems to work already since a while with Apple SoC. The shapr3D app for iPads is based on Parasolid and is now available for Big Sur. There was a podcast with Architosh, where they discussed that. https://www.trxl.co/podcast/023

[M5d 47]

47 minutes ago, elepp said:

Parasolid seems to work already since a while with Apple SoC. The shapr3D app for iPads is based on Parasolid and is now available for Big Sur. There was a podcast with Architosh, where they discussed that. https://www.trxl.co/podcast/023

 

Nice!!! +Maxon

 

Yes, Yes @Pat Stanford & @Nicolas Goutte, an ETA based on where they and their suppliers are at. 

 

[neal-2002 34]

On 11/18/2020 at 9:31 PM, JuanP said:

We received the first machine yesterday, a MacBook air, and we are starting testing immediately. I have heard good things so far, but we need to do more testing. Stay tuned!  

10 days and still nothing from Vectorworks on the M1 performance...not impressed

(its not even 10 days, theyve had the developer model for months now).

 

at this speed @don seidel will have bought a 16bg m1 mini and will be telling us whether it even works with vw2021....

Edited November 27, 2020 by neal-2002

[zoomer 1,012]

Maybe a gag order from Apple 😁

[herbieherb 148]

Look at the cinebench scores. It performs about last years MBP16 i9. The GPU is about something in between GTX 1050Ti and GTX 1060. Memory is shared between CPU and GPU and limited at 16GB. Bandwith to CPU a bit higher than usual, bandwith to GPU a bit lower.

It's about having a machine with very decent CPU, 12 GB RAM and a mediocre GPU with about 4 GB of VRAM. With Vectorworks it will probably perform about last years MBP16 with i9. So very impressive values at this price tag but no revolution for CAD-Users.

I think the actual chip is most impressive for youtubers. Very decent video-editing skills because of its image signal processor and fixed functions for decoding/encoding.

This first generation is in my opinion not the big gamechanger for CAD users. Not enough RAM and no descrete GPU-Support and also not that big performance boost neither single-core nor multicore. Maybe the next annual edition will change that. Until then, this is a very solid recommendation for mobile users at this price tag. Hope Vectorworks gives it a go to work on it soon.

[zoomer 1,012]

My whole Trash Can was basically only most interesting for You Tubers.

It still works fine for VW modeling and basic rendering. Even for Twinmotion.

 

But M1s are more than double the single core performance and maybe

some plus in multi core performance equaling the Rosetta penalty.

First CAD users were also happy about their super snappy 2D and 3D Viewports

in their tests with M1.

And the Videos about 8 vs 16 GB, where they open all their Apps with larger

files at a time and even switching between the Apps is still snappy, looks

promising for me

 

These are the lowest, cheapest and weakest offers Apple has in its lineup.

I always felt sorry for all the students that had to run VW on their13" Macbooks

with integrated GPU.

So it is more that I am impressed that you can run such Apps on these at all.

 

5 hours ago, herbieherb said:

This first generation is in my opinion not the big gamechanger for CAD users.

 

I am not sure if that will ever happen.

But the more suitable devices for more demanding workflows, like an iMac 27" or 30"

are promised but may come earliest in one and a half years, in the worst case.

 

So I think, once we get the VW confirmation,

these could be some nice bridge devices until Apple offers Pro Devices.

And after that, you will still have left an expensive iPad without touch.

🙂

Edited November 27, 2020 by zoomer

[Mark Aceto 418]

@herbieherb  nailed it.

 

On 11/27/2020 at 5:46 AM, herbieherb said:

With Vectorworks it will probably perform about last years MBP16 with i9.

 

And the base model at that. The latest offering with the 5600M GPU + 64GB RAM is still a beast. Can't wait for round 2 of the Mac refresh!

[Mark Aceto 418]

On 11/27/2020 at 10:42 AM, zoomer said:

these could be some nice bridge devices until Apple offers Pro Devices.

 

Thank you. Look at all the bridge devices in my signature. I can't wait to never buy another bridge device once Apple finally gets their sh*t together. Every single year, it's a Sisyphean waiting game for the carrot stick that never comes, always just out of reach. "Next year... "

[zoomer 1,012]

I have my Bridge Can in production since nearly 6 years, again ....

it would hurt to need to wait until WWDC 2021.

I could stand, maybe, until March - if I could be sure something

will come until then.

 

Or, if an Macbook Air will work for moderate 3D/CAD I could wait

easier for the ultimate thing.

(Serious work on the Ryzen PC)

Or use  just my Trash can for 8 years, like I had to with the

previous Mac Pro 2.1.

 

I don't know,

If you could get BTO Macs in as max as a week, I would already

have a 2020 iMac. But as soon as you activate 16 GB RAM for M1

it is at least 3 week extra.

[SteveJ 127]

Happy Cyber Monday. 
I/we appreciate the excitement centered around this topic. I can report that the level of excitement is growing here at Vectorworks too. Last week we were finally able to install a MacBook Pro at the office and begin using it to run our acceptance tests. As you might imagine, a holiday break and Covid-19 provides quite a challenge. We hope to finish this initial testing this week. That said, perhaps the following anecdotal information will help to reveal where we are. I hope to get back to you all by the end of this week with more details.

 

Reasonable Optimism: We have had a MacBook Air (MBA) since 11/18 at 5:45 PM. It arrived on the porch with all 8GB of memory - initial testing that evening and the next day provided a good reason to be excited. As hinted above, the MBA compared very well to my MacBook Pro i7+16G and then again last Monday when a colleague tested with his MBP i9 with 32G. So it is exciting how a consumer-level machine can drive Vectorworks. 

 

Pragmatic Caution: Vectorworks provides such a wide range of capabilities - any one of these could be a critical part of your business. It has so far been difficult to find issues, but we must assume that we will discover some. Please be patient. We are working on this as best we can. We returned from the holiday today, and we will continue to look for information to share.

 

As an Apple customer like you: We can share that we’ve had to reboot our testing machine rather frequently and have had some connectivity problems. As of this morning, we are a quarter of the way through our testing. I can report the following issues:

1. The Finder Icon View of a Vectorworks file does not show a preview
2. Updating a sheet Layer Viewport with OpenGL and Ambient Occlusion will crash. 

Here you can find all official communications about M1 and Big Sur issues

 

Regards,

Steve.
VP Product Development

[zoomer 1,012]

3 hours ago, SteveJ said:

As an Apple customer like you: We can share that we’ve had to reboot our testing machine rather frequently and have had some connectivity problems. As of this morning, we are a quarter of the way through our testing. I can report the following issues:

1. The Finder Icon View of a Vectorworks file does not show a preview
2. Updating a sheet Layer Viewport with OpenGL and Ambient Occlusion will crash. 

 

So it looks like we have the confirmation that on M1 devices basically
following 3D/CAD Apps are running via Rosetta.
Vectorworks, Bricscad, Modo, Blender

 

So far all those testers are very impressed by the power of these nominally
weak devices and that you can run such App at all.
Looks like you can do 90% of your standard 3D task without problems,
basic tasks like web browsing, office, .... like a charm

 

But there are also some reports of unexpected crashes.
Some may just be Big Sur bugs, Apple Silicon Firmware bugs, Rosetta2 bugs
that can be fixed by Software or Firmware Updates.

Looks like the 8 GB versions can basically do the same jobs as the 16 GB versions,
but when it gets very demanding, take about 10+% longer to complete.

 

But my glass ball says, if you have a single App, that has a single Task, that
needs more RAM than available, it will not only get slow but crash (?)
Like importing a gigantic IFC/RVT or dealing with gigantic geometries like
refineries models.

[zoomer 1,012]

https://erik-engheim.medium.com/why-is-apples-m1-chip-so-fast-3262b158cba2

[M5d 47]

1 hour ago, zoomer said:

https://erik-engheim.medium.com/why-is-apples-m1-chip-so-fast-3262b158cba2

 

Thanks Zoomer, that made Apple's current position, or future advantage, clearer. 

[Allen Brown 15]

Just received a new MacBook Air and of course immediately installed Vectorworks 2021 SP2. I've had no issues so far except turning off Ambient Occlusion in an OpenGL sheet viewport. Speed seems faster than my 2014 MacBook Pro..

Edited December 6, 2020 by Allen Brown

[Zeno 268]

13 minutes ago, Allen Brown said:

Just received a new MacBook Air and of course immediately installed Vectorworks 2021 SP2. I've had no issues so far except turning off Ambient Occlusion in an OpenGL sheet viewport. Speed seems faster than my 2015 MacBook Pro..

 

Could you please tell us your MBP specs? Maybe we have the same machine

[Allen Brown 15]

1 minute ago, Zeno said:

 

Could you please tell us your MBP specs? Maybe we have the same machine

[Zeno 268]

1 minute ago, Allen Brown said:

 

The old MBP..

[Allen Brown 15]

13 minutes ago, Zeno said:

 

The old MBP..

Here you go, actually 2014:

.

[neal-2002 34]

2 hours ago, Allen Brown said:

Just received a new MacBook Air and of course immediately installed Vectorworks 2021 SP2. I've had no issues so far except turning off Ambient Occlusion in an OpenGL sheet viewport. Speed seems faster than my 2014 MacBook Pro..

Thats the million dollar question finally answered (that its installs - Note - its been given by a client and not from vw..!!.) 👍🏻👏👏

Edited December 6, 2020 by neal-2002