Mac Silicon OS and VW

[zoomer]

On 1/22/2021 at 4:51 AM, M5d said:

This sounds like your issue @zoomer:

 

‌macOS Big Sur‌ 11.2 improves Bluetooth reliability and fixes the following issues:
- External displays may show a black screen when connected to a Mac mini (M1, 2020) using an HDMI to DVI converter

 

Maybe mike m, Don and zoomer should be on NV's payroll for leaping in  . . .

 

 

 

I have no more DVI(-D) devices and already had 11.2 Public Beta installed.

(last night came 11.2 (20D53) which is official 11.2 now ?)

 

But it was just the crappy HDMI cable.

Although named as "Premium, golden pins, HDMI High Speed, ethernet cable, ..."

Thought "with ethernet cable" stands for better shielding, but it was meant that

the cable offers also ethernet connectivity !?

 

OK,

my USB-C/TB to DP and HDMI arrived and both Wacom Cintiq or Dell 4k work

at full resolutions and 60 Hz - without any flickering now.

 

Apples TB3 to TB2 adapter works too now.

At least it can connect a TB2 disk enclosure.

 

Meanwhile I switched completely from Trash Can to M1 Mini

and am pretty happy with it.

Edited January 23, 2021 by zoomer

[mike m oz]

Two observations with the M1 Mac mini's graphics:

 

- Google Maps Globe View doesn't work well when zooming in and out.  The image takes a surprisingly long time to regenerate in both 2D and 3D.  Standard aerial view seems to take a little longer to regenerate as well.

 

- black and white TIF images of drawings imported into Vectorworks briefly reverse themselves when you zoom in.  ie. the background becomes black and the linework white.  It then reverts.

[line-weight]

On 1/23/2021 at 12:14 PM, zoomer said:

 

Meanwhile I switched completely from Trash Can to M1 Mini

and am pretty happy with it.

 

Does this mean you are getting better performance overall from a base-specification M1 mini, than you were from a trash-can mac-pro?

 

 

[zoomer]

Well, for multicore CPU Rendering which has to run via Rosetta,

the Trash Can is still a tick faster.

But not for native Apps like Cinebench R23 running natively.

 

I think for anything else, single threaded or GPU related,

M1 feels much more snappier and even faster when running

via Rosetta.

[line-weight]

27 minutes ago, zoomer said:

Well, for multicore CPU Rendering which has to run via Rosetta,

the Trash Can is still a tick faster.

But not for native Apps like Cinebench R23 running natively.

 

I think for anything else, single threaded or GPU related,

M1 feels much more snappier and even faster when running

via Rosetta.

 

That's certainly interesting to hear ... it seems I could be confident that it would outperform my refurbed 5,1 classic Mac Pro, where I'm trying to decide if it's worth upgrading the GPU to make it last another year or so before becoming entirely obsolete. The price of a new M1 mini does not make the price of buying a new video card for the Mac Pro look like very good value.

[zoomer]

A M1 Mini is definitely not my usual choice of a common 3D/Cad Workstation,

like my  former PC builds were, or my first Mac Pro 2.1 was for many years.

(let the Trash Can aside, with Workstation price but Video Station Specs ...)

 

But a M1 Mini is just a bit more than I would spend for Hardware over each year.

Of course I am much more interested in what M1/X is coming between

end of to 2021 to end of 2022, or even later, better second generation products.

(I am sure there will soon come a much better Mx Mini in gray, with all ports)

 

But the M1 Mini can run what I could run before with my Trash Can and maybe

even a bit more, at least "sometimes" it is a bit faster.

And M1 is fascinating and fun. I just couldn't resist. I think Apples ARM is the

right way to go and I want to participate.

So I did not loose much money and that way it is much easier to wait until the

real ARM Mac Desktops arrive. And I still have my PC in case the M1 Mini

fails at any situation.

 

I thinks it is always those interims machines, that you bought by occasion without

much emotion, because of not yet being really able to decide for the real dream machine

which last longer than expected.

Like my cheap Ryzen, starter PC, instead of the Threadripper I really wanted instead.

Now with the possibility of a 3950X and a RX6800 upgrade, it has unexpectedly grown

to a much faster 3D Workstation than my initially TR 1950X machine would be today,

for basically the same money.

 

Edited January 25, 2021 by zoomer

[zoomer]

M1X is near ?

 

https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/compare_cpu-apple_m1x-1898-vs-apple_m1-1804

 

 

But I am not concerned because of the 32 GB, 12 CPU and double GPU cores.
As my M1 without X Mac Mini 16 GB seems to do all my most crowded Projects
in CAD and 3D fine so far.
So I can relax and wait for the next 128 GB, 64 core CPU and ultra GPU iMac
or Mac Midi that may come during the next 2 years.

 

 

Just 12 vs 8 CPU cores but nearly double as fast in multi-theaded Cinebench - huh

Edited January 29, 2021 by zoomer

[M5d]

7 hours ago, zoomer said:

Just 12 vs 8 CPU cores but nearly double as fast in multi-theaded Cinebench - huh

It's likely the Efficiency Cores only contribute a small amount to the overall scores in something like Cinebench. Anandtech found the Efficiency Cores can contribute 20 - 33% in some general tests. I've also read (somewhere) that software needs to be written for if, or when, it uses either or both Core types, don't know if that was related to Apple's OS and chips though.

 

Whatever the case, opinion and analysis have been unanimous that Apple's Cores are pretty amazing for their power budget, which presumably means Apple is set to gain a definite performance advantage in its laptops, AIOs and small desktops. Hopefully this brings more software across as well.

 

 isapplesiliconready.com  is tracking the transition, there's a "3d apps" category at the bottom of the page.

     

 

Edited January 30, 2021 by M5d

[line-weight]

This might be useful for anyone who, like me, is interested in the M1 mini but wants to run more than 2 displays.

 

Here he has 2 extra running:

 

 

And here with 6:

 

 

 

 

 

[Knighty]

Just to let all know, my Mac Mini M1 has been up and running for around a week now.....not a single issue yet running VW 2020! Very happy so far and the migration from my MacBook Pro 2012 was very straightforward and took around 3 hrs. I can now do final quality rendering which my MacBook pro never managed to do on VW 2014, so the graphics and processing is a good step forward. 

 

For anyone considering this setup for the money very worthwhile. My whole setup cost £1750 inc vat (mac mini 16gb, 25" HD screen, logitec mouse and keyboard and HD webcam). The Mac 27" with i7 is £2300 so a good saving. 

[mike m oz]

I've had no problems with Vw 2020 on the Mac mini.  

 

Vw 2021 is a bit laggy on OIP maths, drag Wall moves and marquee Wall moves.

[line-weight]

Has anyone tried running VW2018 or 2019 on it?

(Or are they completely out?)

[zoomer]

AFAIK,

anything before VW 2020 will not get M1 (or even Big Sur)

Support anymore.

Edited February 8, 2021 by zoomer

[line-weight]

3 hours ago, zoomer said:

AFAIK,

anything before VW 2020 will not get M1 (or even Big Sur)

Support anymore.

Yes, having done a bit of reading it seems it would be a bad idea to try and run 2018 or 19 on Big Sur.

[line-weight]

Those of you already successfully running M1 mac minis - what size internal storage did you go for? I am considering going for just 256GB and spending the money saved on decent external drives. Does that make sense? I am assuming that read/write speeds are not absolutely critical for VW, and I would be fine having drawing files sitting on an external disk?

[zoomer]

I took what was actually deliverable with 16 GB RAM,

512 GB in that case.

And I am a little concerned about that little SSD,

that you will be never able to replace any time.

 

To be clear, I always try to save all my data and projects

on an external SATA SSD only.

(System SSD is only System, Apps, Temp Downloads and

Temp and Cache Folders)

 

And I was very unhappy that I had to pay for an available

Trash Can's expensive 1 TB SSD, 7 years ago. I would have gone

for 512 GB instead at that time.

But today I already surpassed my 512 GB System Disk limit

nevertheless. And you don't want to completely fill SSDs.

Not too much though and there are still options to get rid of some

things if needed.

But 512 GB only, already means that I have to avoid multiple Versions

of my Apps, where I used to have at least 2 of each. And have to

care about space, currently avoided a 60 GB Unreal Engine install

and such things.

 

A rule of thumb is that you should buy the double amount of disk

space than you think you should buy today (like in my Mac pro case)

 

 

Nevertheless, my clean installed Mac Mini 512 GB, with mostly only

one of each Apps installed is already nearly half full.

But disk space on M1 Mini isn't such an issue, as it is not meant to ran

for another 8 years again, as I am more interested in Apple Silicon that

will come in around 1.5 - 2 years from now.

So just an interims machine, that makes a lot of fun though.

[line-weight]

I have been thinking of a 256GB, partly because that's the only option of the 16GB RAM version that is available "in stock" in the UK just now... otherwise it's a 3-4 weeks wait.

 

My applications at the moment only seem to add up to about 80GB so it seems like enough for apps. Maybe you have some especially large applications?

[zoomer]

11 minutes ago, line-weight said:

I have been thinking of a 256GB, partly because that's the only option of the 16GB RAM version that is available "in stock" in the UK just now... otherwise it's a 3-4 weeks wait.

 

Exactly.

It also took so long for me to order because 16 GB always meant

a 2 or more weeks penalty. Not to forget the decision between these

3 Models. What I would still could make use of when outdated after

6 months.

Soon after the RAM, there came time penalties for more than default

SSDs. Apple must have pre-produced tons of default models and being

surprised itself by the success of sales to serious users.

 

Hope they won't therefore degrade the next generation for marketing

reasons. Tim, we could have sold 80% more $2800 2nd gen Models if

our $700-2200 entry models wouldn't have been that (too) good...

[Claes Lundstrom]

12 hours ago, line-weight said:

I have been thinking of a 256GB, partly because that's the only option of the 16GB RAM version that is available "in stock" in the UK just now... otherwise it's a 3-4 weeks wait.

 

My applications at the moment only seem to add up to about 80GB so it seems like enough for apps. Maybe you have some especially large applications?

 

Getting a bigger hard disk is more important. 256 is not enough. At least a 1 Gig SSD if you ask me (what I have). It is actually significantly more important than getting more RAM. The virtual memory in the M1 is simply fantastic according to many tests, where the consensus seems to be that it seldom makes much of a difference to add more RAM.  It's not at all as with Intel processors, where more RAM is very important. I tested a couple of minutes of 4K video in iMovie on an 8 GB ram Mini, and found no lag whatsoever. Tried the Dodge / Burn tools with a very big brush and on a 168 megapixel image and it was pretty much instant reactions there too (Photoshop lags painfully when doing the same thing). These programs are of course Universal Binary already, so they work at full speed. 

[Nicolas Goutte]

8 minutes ago, Claes Lundstrom said:

These programs are of course Universal Binary already, so they work at full speed. 

 

Universal binaries is perhaps also a reason not to buy a too small SSD, as in future many more programs will be universal binaries and therefore will need more space on the volume.

[line-weight]

Hm. I have a 512GB SSD in my current mac. Just had a look what's on there. About 350 of user stuff that I believe could go on an external disk. Apps come to about 80GB and system stuff about 15. So to me that looks like about 100GB of things that would need to live on the internal drive. I guess I can see that if that were to double, it would be getting quite tight. But 512GB would seem to be reasonable. @Claes Lundstrom how do you arrive at your 1TB recommendation?

 

 

Also... I have seen quite a few references to the possibility of running applications off an external disk. eg

 

 

 

Is that a bad idea?

 

[Nicolas Goutte]

3 minutes ago, line-weight said:

Also... I have seen quite a few references to the possibility of running applications off an external disk. eg

[...]

Is that a bad idea?

 

May be it is a personal preference. Also it depends how tight the security is going to be in future macOS versions (which is hard to forecast).

[zoomer]

11 hours ago, line-weight said:

Also... I have seen quite a few references to the possibility of running applications off an external disk. eg

Is that a bad idea?

 

 

Not really, it is just more setup work.

Something true Mac users aren't interested to deal with.

 

Yes, e.g., I could (meanwhile) install my Modo 60+ GB Library Files

on my external Data SSD. But would need to check each Modo

installation if it finds the new custom path, and other things.

Or move some Linux VMs to an external disk. But basically you want

them on your faster internal SSD.

 

For me it is just easier to buy enough system disk capacity.

OK, with Apples pharmacy pricing, you have to find some way in between.

[line-weight]

2 hours ago, zoomer said:

 

 

Not really, it is just more setup work.

Something true Mac users aren't interested to deal with.

 

Yes, e.g., I could (meanwhile) install my Modo 60+ GB Library Files

on my external Data SSD. But would need to check each Modo

installation if it finds the new custom path, and other things.

Or move some Linux VMs to an external disk. But basically you want

them on your faster internal SSD.

 

For me it is just easier to buy enough system disk capacity.

OK, with Apples pharmacy pricing, you have to find some way in between.

 

Cheers. Well, I decided to take the risk of a 256GB SSD, partly because if I wanted anything else, it's probably a 3 weeks wait. So it is ordered.

 

I have spent most of this evening trying to work out which combination of adapters, cables and so on I need to get my 3 monitors connected. When they arrive I will find out if I've got it right (I'll be surprised if I have...the options seem to get more confusing all the time)

 

Next I have to do my research on the best option for external SDD... more confusion with SATA and NVMe and various other things that have changed since I last looked at this. And better to get portable disk or put a non-portable one in an enclosure (cheaper?) ... any tips welcome.

[Vishal Lakhia]

While I'm following this post, I've a 21.5 inch 2017 iMac which I'm running out of patience with, and waiting for the new M1 iMac, hopefully if they release next month.  

 

If the new iMac doesn't come out next month I may just go ahead and buy a MacBook Pro - 16GB, 1TB. I think anything less than 1TB would be really questionable in terms of space.  It will be expensive to buy a MacBook Pro as I'll also have to buy a 27 inch LG ultra fine display.