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andrewbirch

Vectorworks 2010

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When 2010 does come out later this month, can we finally have trial copies in the UK please. To this day I've never been able to get my hands on 2009 to see what I've been missing...

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Chris

Trial copies of 2009 are available, but they are a difference license which requires a different build. Last year, the trial version build for 2009 and other versions reliant on the build (I think the educational license is) were delayed by many months. I think I got my copies earlier this year. Hopefully this delay will not happen this time.

Probably a bit late now, but if you still want a trial of 2009, PM me and I can hopefully send you out one. I am however in the process of moving house so I'm not 100% sure where I put the remaining discs so you may not get it any sooner than a 2010 one!

-Ian

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Rhino for Mac is in beta testing. I have played with it a little (no Rhino experience before) and it has some nice features. It is, however, quite a different workflow. Its probably well suited for industrial design of products, but I can't imagine doing what I do (exhibits, theatre shows) completely in Rhino.

Vectorworks is fairly powerful on the 3D side, but the interface is a bit inconsistent. Its taken me a while to get up to speed, but now I seem to be able to make it do much of what I want. More so than my colleague using Autocad when it comes to more organic shapes.

KM

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Design in 3D has gotten a lot better in Vectorworks, however it doesn't compare to Rhino or Modo. However, with the parasolid engine, there is hope. btw, C4D just went 64 bit on the Mac and PC across the new upgrade and all modules with version 11.5, released this week. We use it quite a bit.

Lets hope that the Vectorwork 2010 drum starts beating soon....I think I hear something very faint....

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Rhino for Mac is in beta testing. I have played with it a little (no Rhino experience before) and it has some nice features. It is, however, quite a different workflow. Its probably well suited for industrial design of products,

KM

I've also been using the Mac Beta of Rhino.

Even the beta can do with ease modeling tasks that VW cannot manage at all, let alone reliably.

But thats what Rhino is made for.

VW engineers have to produce an Architectural/Landscape/Theatrical/Mechanical cross platform do-it-all ...and stay abreast of the competition, and try to satisfy the inevitable endless wish list of users .......like me.

I find Rhino's workflow clunky, but it has the conventional 4-view modeling space that I would love to see in VW. The command line interface is, well,.... command line, but it's modeling functionality is far above VW's.

I'm really quite comfy in VW but I would dearly love to see Biplab and the team let loose on the 3D modeling abilities instead of having to spend their time dealing with tedious wall junctions etc etc for architects...........

but that's just me.

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...but I would dearly love to see Biplab and the team let loose on the 3D modeling abilities instead of having to spend their time dealing with tedious wall junctions etc etc for architects...........

but that's just me.

That's me too!

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I would love to see them let the parasolid goodness flow, as well. Just make sure I can handle 10 million polygons and still work in the file, because that what the modelers like Rhino and modo and formZ do really well. I dont envy Biplab's job.

Revit is the competition everywhere these days, I think for VW. VW is not a modeler. Its not a Renderer or Animator. Its a highly graphic BIM package that is more intuitive than any other BIM package. However, it must still be able to handle the big projects and mesh with firms stuck in the Autodesk tractor beam of endless investment.

oh, and 64 bit, asap. : )

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Hello all, I am a new Vectorworks user, and new to the forum. I am also eagerly awaiting VW2010, and thought I may as well throw in my two cents worth on some of the VW and 3D solid modeling issues discussed. I usually model furniture/products to produce both presentation graphics, documentation (documentation, in my workflow = technical drawings which will inevitably be revisioned by clients or manufacturers, schedules etc.) and part data (DXF for CAM, STL for RP, occasional models for FEA). When I first sat down with VW2009, I was a little disappointed with the 3D "feel", however after a couple of weeks of use, I'm starting to understand where the power lies in VW.

Before VW, I had been using both form Z and Ashlar Vellum Xenon, these have a very different 3D feel, almost a "digital clay" type of directness, with direct 3D space manipulation of the model on screen. This is all wonderful, you rapidly build a 3D model right there in space...and then it comes time to produce documentation, so the thing can actually get built, and the pain begins. Extracting part data for schedules, revisioning, managing viewports. In my experience, programs like Xenon and FormZ simply cannot deliver when it comes to dealing with the "go make it" end of the design workflow, and so far, I am blown away at how well VW deals with this, even for non-architecture/non-BIM type design sectors.

Apples with Apples: VW Designer with renderworks is a BARGAIN for its functionality (at least in Australia) when compared with AutoCAD, NX, Solidworks, and is similar to something like Ashlar Vellum Xenon, which can't compete when it comes to managing revisioned documentation.

I kept Xenon for those occasions where I need to really quickly model up a bunch of variations of a solid, and I can recommend it for this type of work. Lots of workflows in graphic design and engineering rely on multiple software packages to achieve the end results. I use Adobe Creative Suite (at least 4 different applications packaged together), and I know several engineering outfits that use stand-alone FEA despite using Inventor. As long as vectorworks keeps an eye on interoperability and round -trip fidelity, which they seem to be doing quite well (C4D, pdf and dxf import seems strong to me, compared with FormZ and Xenon), I am just happy to be able to use a versatile program with a good solids kernel at a fantastic price.

With the correct layer set-up, use of layer stacking and saved views in Vectorworks, I am finding that I am getting very close to the feel of a program like Xenon/FormZ. I actually find the DL/SLVP system much more versatile than the layer system on Xenon and FormZ. For example, you can set up layers to review and interact with several different options for a relationship between two parts much more elegantly than by simply turning on/off discrete layers.

If I had one big wish: PLEASE get rid of the pixelated proxy graphic that replaces the model when zooming and 3D rotating. My old PowerBook G4 would seamlessly zoom and rotate a solid model in perspective, with multiple light sources, full of parts with transparency (ACIS kernel & open GL), surely VW/Parasolid on a new MacBook Pro can handle it without needing to proxy and re-draw the screen for EVERY SINGLE MOVEMENT. This would be a big step forward in creating a smooth modeling feel. (This might be a newby problem - have I missed something in the preferences settings?)

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If I had one big wish: PLEASE get rid of the pixelated proxy graphic that replaces the model when zooming and 3D rotating. My old PowerBook G4 would seamlessly zoom and rotate a solid model in perspective, with multiple light sources, full of parts with transparency (ACIS kernel & open GL), surely VW/Parasolid on a new MacBook Pro can handle it without needing to proxy and re-draw the screen for EVERY SINGLE MOVEMENT. This would be a big step forward in creating a smooth modeling feel. (This might be a newby problem - have I missed something in the preferences settings?)

I also have a similar gripe. Maybe you can add your voice to the subject "OpenGL" in the wish list section.

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I need to learn more about Rhino and Revit.

I do know a bit about formz, though, and I can tell you simply why I prefer to model with that.

Points, segments, surfaces and holes of any solid or polygon object are easily editable. Want to move a segment on a cube? You can do it graphically or by coordinate input with a move command. The object adjusts to its new geometry quickly and automatically.

There is a lot more to that program, but that is the one thing that makes modeling so fluid and stress free.

Donald

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FormZ still does some things better than any application out there. Too bad they develop at a snails pace.

It would be very nice to have VW support the emerging COLLADA export for the 3D assets. The other modelers are starting to get on board, and moving models around between workflows is essential for our practice.

Someone mentioned to me that Snow Leopard supports viewing COLLADA files at the OS level the other day. Wouldn't it be nice to 'QuickLook' a VW model or project ?

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Not tried either myself but I've seen Rhino being used by a colleague and was impressed. I had heard somewhere that Rhino might be developed for the Mac but that was sometime ago.

yes Rhino is coming to Mac OSX, I think with next release (Rhino 5). It's indeed a 3d modeler for industrial design, but some people use it for architecture as well. Used with Vray I think you'll get a really powerful modeler + renderer combination.

I've been using Cinema 4d for rendering - a fantastic application - but sometimes you get stuck importing complex geometries (I work mainly for industrial design). Rhino + Vray works without problems since Vray is a plugin inside Rhino.

Definitely you can model almost anything in Rhino, quite interesting also for architecture the combination with Grasshopper for parametric modelling: worth checking out!

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Thanks for your insight. Thats why I held back from 2009. I want to move forward when I am able to use the full complement of the parasolid modeling tools. I am eager to see what kind of model size the next version can handle. I was watching someone use the new modo, and the amount of solids it can handle is simply stunning.

Modo is not a solid modeler, it's a polygon modeler. That means it uses polygons (faces) as a basis. You can make things that look organic, but that are at its basis only faces (lots of them). Plus, you can't make real booleans, real roundings and so on. CINEMA 4D has the same "weakness". It's really apples and oranges.

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NNA did manage to announce some new 2010 features yesterday:

http://architosh.com/2009/09/nemetschek-details-release-of-vectorworks-2010/

Nothing that really grabbed my attention, aside from increased speed with the Mac version when used with Snow Leopard.

There is nothing said so far on any great new parasolid features - which would set them apart from the other BIM modelers.

I, for one, am tired of the comments claiming Vw is "not a building modeler", whatever that means. Perhaps this new version will quiet the skeptics.

Edited by Bob-H

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I actually read a host of important improvements from the press release. There may even be a Stairway to Heaven.

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I only caught the last half of the Web Seminar on 2010. Sounds interesting. I am amazed that the program is supposedly ready to ship in a week, but there is not a hint of any information on their web site.

How can you have a product shipping without any info on your own company website?

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I'm new to Vectorworks 2009 trial version and am pleased so far.

although I use many of the software mentioned in this thread, I am looking to VW capabilities to solve the price barrier of Revit, to export to Cinema 4D for renders and also to produce contract documents. I would probably stay with Revit except that I cannot afford it (for personal use in free lance projects) plus VW seems much more capable for more organic modeling so far.

My pipeline now and before becoming proficient with Vectorworks begins in ACAD Architecture or in Revit more lately, then out to Cinema 4D. Occasionally I need to get some massing fast for architecture, so I do this in Cinema 4D and sometimes in Rhino 4 ( really dislike the models that Sketchup makes - ugh...) then plop them into Revit for reality checks and sections etc. Usually before a project is finished in Revit, it will be taken into Cinema for renders for presentations. As mentioned above Rhino 4 is a wonderful modeler and is fairly intuitive for autocad users - should be - the developers of Rhino wrote much of the original ACAD code as employees, I believe. I've used Rhino since r.2 - off and on over the years.

The best thing for me and for my "other job" studio seems to be the seamless import of dimensionally accurate models from Vectorworks to Cinema and back while all the while developing a set of construction docs. I am looking forward to the progress noted above for 2010. I never would have looked at VW if Revit had not been so expensive and it appears that VW is capable of much better organic shapes than Revit - today anyway. Whatever happens, I doubt I'll give up using Cinema 4D for renders and quick massing models with stunning lighting etc. Been using Cinema since version 7 ART. This thread has been really valuable to me as a new user, so thanks very much.

two

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All these great new features that make taking the next step and purchasing very palatable.

DCM 2d Integration, Wall Networks, Add Segment widget to, Dimension OIP, Interactive Dimension editing, Dimension Standard on Tool Bar, Custom Dimension Standard Option on OIP and Tool Bar, Improved Drag, Support for Dimension Text, Chain Dimension Text Collision control, Fractional Display Style of Dimension Text, 2d/3d integration, Planar Graphics, 3d Snapping, Adobe Air Online Help system implementation, Wall and Component Join Improvements, Improved Wall Hole Editing Mode, Improved Wall Hole Textures, Automatic, Drawing Coordination, Notes Manager Improvements, Wall Sculpting, Corner Window, Stair Object Modified and Improved, Decal Textures, VBvisual Plant, Blur Reflectivity Shaders, Texture Mapping Improvements, Site DTM Improved, Parking improvements and new Parking Area and Along Path, Better 3d Graphics for Landscape area object, Grade Calculator, Hardscape improved, Event Room Layout, Video Screen Objects, Viewport Edit Crop enhanced, Retain Design Layer Viewport Visibilities in Sheet Layer and Section Viewports, Global World Coordinates on OIP in Rotated Plan, In place Editing of Referenced Resources, Purge Improvements, DXF/DWG, Import and Export improved, Selection Support for Object Modification Tool, Marque Selection with 2d Reshape now possible when inside another object boundary, Move by Point tool improved, Prevent Wall Insertion Mode for Symbols, Attribute Mapping of Associative Hatches on Hatched objects, Select Similar Tool

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@twonetis

Firstly, getting away from AutoDesk is always a good thing :) . This is a good time to come on board.

Secondly, you won't go wrong with a Vectorworks/Cinema4D combination via the plug-in.

All the best for the future and happy Vectorworking.

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