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Tom Klaber

2021 - Material Control Over Cut

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Thanks @Art V that makes a lot more sense thanks for taking the time to explain. I was trying to visualise the same wall component looking different above + below the cut plane but yes I can absolutely see how you might want to show some wall components one way in horizontal section + another in vertical section. Mostly for me the same hatch/fill is fine in both situations but yes something like solid wood for example I've found quite unsatisfactory where longways grain is right for one view but not for the other where crossways grain would be more appropriate. But this only applies in detail drawings, not general plans/sections where such a level of detail would be out of place. For me at least. So far

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What I don't get so far with VW Materials and its Editor.

There are single materials and composite materials.

(Like reinforced concrete = concrete+steel)

 

Both look totally identical in resource manager.

But when you want to edit a Composite Material you can just edit

by adding or deleting more Composites ?

You need to close the composite material again and open one of

the child Materials again, before you can edit these ?

I see no way in Material Editor to directly jump to the settings of

a Composite to edit.

 

I can't even recognize in RM, what is a pure single Material and what

is a Composite Material.

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1 minute ago, zoomer said:

What I don't get so far with VW Materials and its Editor.

There are single materials and composite materials.

(Like reinforced concrete = concrete+steel)

 

Both look totally identical in resource manager.

 

Yes, this is something I ran into as well and kept me wondering how it is supposed to be used/work. This seems to be a case of NSTWI (New Shiny Tool Without Instructions)

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If you look well, you'll see that they have a tiny icon on the bottom right corner. You might oversee it if your resource manager is set to display the resources as list:

 

1115128345_ScreenShot2020-09-19at14_10_45.thumb.png.d9da7ff84622ea050fdc659f12244e67.png

 

You don't edit them in the composite editor, you just assemble them.

You edit them in their quality as singular material. It is true that a contextual right-click option while selecting a part could be helpful:

 

image.thumb.png.46a266cc26160c6c974d59f742b73982.png

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Just read the help file on this and it wasn't of much help 🙂

 

Most of it was clear except this:

"Enter the percentage of the selected material within the compound material. Each simple material in a compound material can be set to 1-100%; materials do not have to total 100%."

 

In theory one can keep all percentages at 100%, so with three different materials in a compound material one might expect the following for getting 100%:

Material 1: 20%

Material 2: 30%

Material 3: 50%

 

But it could also be 20/20/20 making a total of 60% or 100/100/100 making a total of 300%. Or it could be that it recalculates the values in proportional percentages relative to the listed percentages, e.g. keeping all 3 materials at 100% would equal into 33.3333 %  part in the compound material.

 

What bothers me about this lack of information is that without trial and error I have no idea how the mass of a compound material will be calculated if the total of the composing materials is not 100%.


@JuanP could you please elaborate on this?

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9 hours ago, Art V said:

But it could also be 20/20/20 making a total of 60% or 100/100/100 making a total of 300%. Or it could be that it recalculates the values in proportional percentages relative to the listed percentages, e.g. keeping all 3 materials at 100% would equal into 33.3333 %  part in the compound material.

 

What bothers me about this lack of information is that without trial and error I have no idea how the mass of a compound material will be calculated if the total of the composing materials is not 100%.

 


I am really confused by this as well: In the Concrete Reinforced Precast MT (UK, also US) posted above, the Steel Rebar % is at 100% of the Material volume, equal to the volume of Concrete. An equal ratio of Concrete to Rebar seems a little high to me...
 

In this instance, I don’t see the point of using Materials for quantities estimating if the Reinforcing Steel is equal to the Concrete. 
 

@JuanP - as evidenced by the confusion expressed in this thread, an in-depth tutorial on the usage / workflow of Materials is desperately needed. This is a huge new feature, and the 2m31s video linked from the 2021 User Manual to VwUniv barely even scratches the surface. Thanks.

Edited by rDesign
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16 hours ago, rDesign said:


I am really confused by this as well: In the Concrete Reinforced Precast MT (UK, also US) posted above, the Steel Rebar % is at 100% of the Material volume, equal to the volume of Concrete. An equal ratio of Concrete to Rebar seems a little high to me...

 

 

This is bug-filed.

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@Art V @Tom W. 

If we look at wall sections, there is no material in our office that we show as different hatches in different cuts.  We have made them the same.  In my option a wall section is a diagram and the hatches have a KEY that tells you what the material is.  We seldom would want to try and get a hatch to accurately display geometry.  For repeated elements like studs that would show up in a plan cut but not a section cut, we draw those separately.  

 

So the ability to separate plan cuts from section cut fills is not high on my list personally.

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@Art V 

I think it works if you have a 12"x12"x12" mass of of the material - 1 cubic foot - the material take off would be just the percentage times that cube.  So if you have 100% rebar and 100% concrete - then the material take off will be one cubic foot of concrete and one cubic foot of steel.   So it is just a spread sheet and you get to set your own values.


I rather like this compared to VW throwing up error and demanding 100%.  I picture the stair tool that is so worried about code that it will not let me design a stair.  

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55 minutes ago, Tom Klaber said:

@Art V @Tom W. 

If we look at wall sections, there is no material in our office that we show as different hatches in different cuts.  We have made them the same.  In my option a wall section is a diagram and the hatches have a KEY that tells you what the material is.  We seldom would want to try and get a hatch to accurately display geometry.  For repeated elements like studs that would show up in a plan cut but not a section cut, we draw those separately.  

 

So the ability to separate plan cuts from section cut fills is not high on my list personally.

 

I'd say I tend to agree with this.

 

It would however be useful if certain materials could hatch parallel to their orientation - primary example being sheet materials like plywood.

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