Jump to content
Jim W

WWDC 2019 - Mac Pro Hopes

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, Mark Aceto said:

 

While that is true, none of the previous Mac Pro's were priced so out of reach for professionals. Rationalizing that this version "isn't for us" is to forget that every prior version was.

 

As someone who's getting ridding of my iMac Pro (all in one is not for me), my options are Mac Pro, Mac Mini, and MistakeBook Pro.

 

So, unless they're about to surprise us with a new modular desktop, they just hosed most of their pro users.

Yeah, I have the same gripe about BMW motorcycles 🙂

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, jeff prince said:

Yeah, I have the same gripe about BMW motorcycles 🙂

 

Does riding them pay the bills?

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, jeff prince said:

BMW and KTM are the Apples of that industry 🙂

 

Are BMW bikes thermally throttled?

 

Sorry, I get triggered by the BMW comparison because:

  • There was a time when Apple truly made a premium product "that just worked", had NVIDIA GPU's, antiglare screens, functional keyboards, made the best routers (that still beat the current competition six years later), didn't require dongles... and an argument could be made that they truly lived up to that comparison
  • $2500 got us the base model cheese grater 2008 - 2012 that are still in huge demand for good reason
  • $3000 got us the base model trash can in 2013 - 2018 that couldn't be upgraded and still sells with 6-year old components
  • $6000 gets us the base model in 2019 although the SLI GPU's is long overdue

Today, a more accurate comparison would be paying BMW prices for Kia performance (sorry, I'm not a motorcycle guy).

 

Cupertino has, once and for all, jumped the shark:

 

20190602_apple_pro_stand_3x2.jpg

Edited by Mark Aceto

Share this post


Link to post
21 minutes ago, Mark Aceto said:

 

Are BMW bikes thermally throttled?

 

Sorry, I get triggered by the BMW comparison because:

  • There was a time when Apple truly made a premium product "that just worked", had NVIDIA GPU's, antiglare screens, functional keyboards, made the best routers (that still beat the current competition six years later), didn't require dongles... and an argument could be made that they truly lived up to that comparison
  • $2500 got us the base model cheese grater 2008 - 2012 that are still in huge demand for good reason
  • $3000 got us the base model trash can in 2013 - 2018 that couldn't be upgraded and still sells with 6-year old components
  • $6000 gets us wheels in 2019 although the SLI GPU's is long overdue

Today, a more accurate comparison would be paying BMW prices for Kia performance (sorry, I'm not a motorcycle guy).

 

Cupertino has, once and for all, jumped the shark:

 

20190602_apple_pro_stand_3x2.jpg

 

Yes, most BMW bikes are thermally throttled and tied to a propriety engine management system.

 

You are starting to sound bitter about this whole Apple thing.  Just buy a bin of parts and make your own if none of the manufactures suit your needs.  That's what I used to do back in the day.

I don't need or want one of these fancy monitors and stands, but I can appreciate the design and engineering.

The world is a more interesting place with quality design, something you would think all of us using VW would agree on.

Share this post


Link to post

The stand price left me speechless. Not even height or rocker arm style adjustment.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Jim W said:

The stand price left me speechless. Not even height or rocker arm style adjustment.

It's a price you have to pay if you really really want one.

I see vesa being basically default option, what is a rip is the vesa mount isn't included in the price. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

I was getting tires today & the shop was getting new counters as they continued to work. The counters are provided by the tire company & the monitors are flat screens with black backgrounds  with mostly green blue & some red Helvetica like font. Think MS DOS from 1989, & as I had time to snoop the monitor stand that looked like what a bartender uses to administer shots of liquor from were being unloaded from a box. I happened to look at the invoice $689. $689 for a 2 1/2" tube with a flange & a bracket welded to it & a decorative escutcheon ring. So a Mac Version is 50% more does not surprise me. 

 

Not that I'm going to pay it, but some folks just are not as thrifty as me.  

Share this post


Link to post
9 hours ago, Jim W said:

Not even height or rocker arm style adjustment.

 

It is height adjustable by rotating that arm piece.

But I am sure it won't get as low as I would want.

(And they always tend to show it in its highest position)

 

It works with springs like a Surface Studio or a Vesa Stand

to keep it in balance.

Share this post


Link to post
9 hours ago, Jim W said:

The stand price left me speechless. Not even height or rocker arm style adjustment.

 

The other way to look at it is that many pros using these kinds of machines will already have mounts/stands, so really it's a discount 😉

  • Laugh 1

Share this post


Link to post
19 hours ago, zoomer said:

I suffer since years too.

Made me even try Windows again.

I love to be able to build my own hardware but quickly realized

Windows is no alternative for me.

And the new Pro Mac Pro + Metal support announcements did

not really convince me that I should stay with Apple.

Although the Pro Mac Pro is far better than I expected.

 

One one hand it is (and looks) not 100% of what I want,

on the other hand it doesn't make much sense to triple my

hardware budget in general.

But the more I test and play with Linux, the more I get confident

with it and excited about it.

 

What was it that made you decide Windows was no alternative?

 

(I'm hoping you can give me a good excuse to stay with mac, because I really don't want to switch, but everything makes it look like it's the sensible decision now)

 

Also interested to hear your experience with Linux (maybe that's for a different thread though). You can run VW on it somehow?

Share this post


Link to post
18 hours ago, Jim W said:



I almost always have dual monitors at minimum in my workflow, but I use Vectorworks on a single display.

 

 

I now use 3 monitors.

 

Biggest one with the main VW window and pallettes on it.

Second one has a second VW pane on it (when I'm using multiple panes)

Third, smallest one has the VW resource browser on it.

 

The 2nd and 3rd monitors also get used for displaying things like PDFs and browser windows, which I find very useful to be able to have open at the same time as VW.

 

This setup sort-of works. Sometimes I don't quite know why certain application windows are popping to the front on various monitors but I can't be bothered to work out exactly how it all happens. Probably I could set things up better with split windows and suchlike.

 

There are various things that could make VW work much more smoothly across multiple panes/monitors.

 

I'd find it very difficult now to operate with less than 2 monitors. My current setup with 3 means I am now hardly ever printing stuff out on paper to refer to whilst working on screen, which is great. Mostly the only paper that needs to be on my desk now is for hand drawing things.

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)

Apple Insider has mentioned, in a couple threads, that Apple had indicated to them that there will be a basic stand; (Reply 38) , but as yet haven't been able to re-confirm it.

 

Another interesting article on a new collaboration between Graphisoft and Epic / Twinmotion has popped up at Architosh which, perhaps, provides perspective for Apples Mac Pro. My take, once you've purchased Apple's "modular" mac pro, you've likely purchased a chassis, power supply and cooling system to take you through the next 3 or 4 generations of internals, hence "The Power to Change Everything" and "Through and through, Mac Pro is built to change with your needs."        

 

  

Edited by M5d

Share this post


Link to post

If they had used AMD CPU, it would have been possible to

upgrade CPUs over years. Intel changes sockets like underware.

 

But at least the CPU seems to be not socketed as some speculated.

So like with trash can, there is at least a chance that you may get also

the top processor at a reasonable price in 5 years.

Some people recently upgraded their trash can to the 12 core for 500

bucks (instead of 2400).

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
54 minutes ago, line-weight said:

What was it that made you decide Windows was no alternative?

 

It got a bit better over time as I found some workarounds.

 

But for me Windows 10 still feels like a total mess, spying, obtrusive,

restricting, risky and I don't trust it in every aspect.

Generally all that little love to details of features I intensively used

on Mac. And it needs so much more attention and care opposed to

macOS or Linux.

I could go into many details and write 5 pages what, why and where

it annoys me exactly. Things that I wouldn't have expected in a Windows 10

after 12 years of development since I left Windows.

 

But for mainly VW users,

there is currently no reason to leave Apple. VW will work fine for the next

few years with iMacs, Macbook Pros, Minis and maybe even an iMac Pro.

Also macOS will be fine for standard usage.

 

After playing with Linux for about a year my Linux experience is great.

Now I make faster steps and it gets better every day.

I am sure VW and Cinema would run fine in a virtual machine Windows

on Linux.

But I have Modo and Bricscad running fine on Linux now,

so VW and C4D aren't highest priority to me.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Stanley Rostas said:

We have used the present Mac Pro for 6 1/2" Years. that is $1,200 a year for computer cost. Let's say you spend $9,000 on the new Mac Pro and use it for 6 years, that comes down to $1,500 per year in computer cost.

 

Now let's say you buy either an iMac or MacBook Pro either or would cost around $3,800. We get about 3 years out of these for our power users but could be longer for a non-power user but based upon the new Mac Pro lets say these are for power users. That comes out to $1,260 a year in computer cost.

 

As you can see the per year delta is not that great and the amount of power the power user has is much greater thus time savings hopefully. Our present Mac Pro as we await the new one with a certain task is still much faster than the latest Mac Book Pro or iMac. We will get another 3 years of use or more out of the present Mac Pro for other low-level users and non-essential work type task thus reducing the per year cost even more.

 

We have priced equivalent Windows computers as best as possible and it is as stated, costing much more than this Mac Pro by a couple of thousand dollars or more. We think this present Mac Pro is a bargain, while the monitor, on the other hand, is a bargain for those that need that type of color and resolution in the film, photography, and Industrial realms which is much bigger than the Architectural profession in sheer numbers.

 

That is some well thought out perspective on the value of these high end Macs.  

 

Thanks for this.

 

Rob

Share this post


Link to post
16 hours ago, M5d said:

My take, once you've purchased Apple's "modular" mac pro, you've likely purchased a chassis, power supply and cooling system to take you through the next 3 or 4 generations of internals, hence "The Power to Change Everything" and "Through and through, Mac Pro is built to change with your needs."

 

Exactly why I wish Apple would rip out that 3-year-old $300 GPU, useless 256GB storage, weak CPU, and RAM. Then knock the chassis price down to $3K, and let me install whatever I want with my money. Hence the power to change everything.

 

They backed into a fake $6k price by cheating on components. Either put in the right parts and announce it for the actual $10k cost of the step up config or sell it as a chassis.

 

The pro announcements were all just adding insult to injury. Federighi and Joz wouldn’t even admit how much the wheels cost when Gruber asked them point blank onstage at his podcast show. Guessing those will be $500-1000. Then again, excellent 3rd party opportunity right there (I’ll take some Colsen locking casters please).

Share this post


Link to post
8 hours ago, Stanley Rostas said:

We have used the present Mac Pro for 6 1/2" Years. that is $1,200 a year for computer cost. Let's say you spend $9,000 on the new Mac Pro and use it for 6 years, that comes down to $1,500 per year in computer cost.

 

Now let's say you buy either an iMac or MacBook Pro either or would cost around $3,800. We get about 3 years out of these for our power users but could be longer for a non-power user but based upon the new Mac Pro lets say these are for power users. That comes out to $1,260 a year in computer cost.

 

As you can see the per year delta is not that great and the amount of power the power user has is much greater thus time savings hopefully. Our present Mac Pro as we await the new one with a certain task is still much faster than the latest Mac Book Pro or iMac. We will get another 3 years of use or more out of the present Mac Pro for other low-level users and non-essential work type task thus reducing the per year cost even more.

 

We have priced equivalent Windows computers as best as possible and it is as stated, costing much more than this Mac Pro by a couple of thousand dollars or more. We think this present Mac Pro is a bargain, while the monitor, on the other hand, is a bargain for those that need that type of color and resolution in the film, photography, and Industrial realms which is much bigger than the Architectural profession in sheer numbers.

 

Won’t be long before we’re leasing them like iPhones...

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
On 6/6/2019 at 3:32 AM, M5d said:

Another interesting article on a new collaboration between Graphisoft and Epic / Twinmotion has popped up at Architosh which, perhaps, provides perspective for Apples Mac Pro.

 

Apple's Radeon II (aka Radeon VII) isn't capable of ray-tracing, so it can't take advantage of that feature in Epic's new Unreal engine (inside Twinmotion).

 

Also, Ryzen 3000, PCIE 4, Navi... are right around the corner, so this thing's gonna be outdated by the time it's released.

 

At this point, I'm convinced they only made this for the studios creating content for AppleTV+

Edited by Mark Aceto

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

 

7150 Riverwood Drive, Columbia, Maryland 21046, USA   |   Contact Us:   410-290-5114

 

© 2018 Vectorworks, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Vectorworks, Inc. is part of the Nemetschek Group.

×