VW2024

[P Retondo]

Does anyone know what improvements, especially for architects, will be included in the new 2024 version?

[Pat Stanford]

As far as I know, no public announcement of VW2024 (or whatever it is going to be called) has been made. So anyone who knows is probably under NDA and can't tell you anything.

 

Historically there are been "Teaser Tuesdays" starting in July/August to hint at some of the upcoming features.

 

Sorry.

[spettitt]

On 6/28/2023 at 10:30 PM, Pat Stanford said:

As far as I know, no public announcement of VW2024 (or whatever it is going to be called) has been made. So anyone who knows is probably under NDA and can't tell you anything.

 

Historically there are been "Teaser Tuesdays" starting in July/August to hint at some of the upcoming features.

 

Sorry.

 

For various reasons, it would be handy to know when new major versions tend to come out if you know, please...I believe it's commonly September? I look after CAD admin for our company and it would be handy if I didn't book leave at the same time!

[Jeff Prince]

1 hour ago, spettitt said:

I believe it's commonly September? I look after CAD admin for our company and it would be handy if I didn't book leave at the same time!

 

Yes, September.

Take your leave when you want, it's never wise to install software when it is first released.  I have typically stayed 1 year behind for stability.

[Matt Overton]

On 6/29/2023 at 6:15 AM, P Retondo said:

Does anyone know what improvements, especially for architects, will be included in the new 2024 version?

https://www.vectorworks.net/en-AU/public-roadmap

is a pretty good guess at what will be in there.

I assume most of "scheduled" and some "in development"  will make it into VW before the service pack in 2024 that makes 2024 stable for use.

[spettitt]

12 minutes ago, jeff prince said:

 

Yes, September.

Take your leave when you want, it's never wise to install software when it is first released.  I have typically stayed 1 year behind for stability.

Thanks. Absolutely agreed - but I'm sure there will be one or two that can't resist pressing the button...😀

[Jeff Prince]

59 minutes ago, spettitt said:

Thanks. Absolutely agreed - but I'm sure there will be one or two that can't resist pressing the button...😀

You let them press the button???

how refreshing.

[P Retondo]

Pretty dismal.  VW is now a prepaid subscription, in effect, and you don’t know what you are paying for since you have to decide on July 1 if you want to continue, and don’t know what you are getting until August or September.  
 

Based on the last several years, I haven’t been tempted to install my 2021, 22, or 23 versions because none of them offer fixes for longstanding issues with doors, windows, stairs, cabinets or anything else.  After paying many $,1000s over the years, I’d say the subscription is worth $200, max, not the over $600 I pay per seat.  

 

I’m hoping 2024 proves an exception to this lackluster performance, but if there is yet again no response to the many complaints, I’m going to conclude a dysfunctional corporate culture has taken over there.

[JuanP]

5 minutes ago, P Retondo said:

Pretty dismal.  VW is now a prepaid subscription, in effect, and you don’t know what you are paying for since you have to decide on July 1 if you want to continue, and don’t know what you are getting until August or September.

You can always refer to the scheduled features part of the RoadMap , which will guide you on what's coming in the next versions.

 

10 minutes ago, P Retondo said:

I’m hoping 2024 proves an exception to this lackluster performance, but if there is yet again no response to the many complaints, I’m going to conclude a dysfunctional corporate culture has taken over there.

I would like to know more about the issues you are referring to. Feel free to contact me at jalmansa@vectorworks.net and I'll be happy to set up a quick meeting to discuss further.  Thanks

 

[P Retondo]

Appreciate that, Juan, but the “roadmap” is pretty cryptic.  I will email you, but if you’ve been following this board for a few years, you should surely know all the complaints about architectural PIOs and parametric objects. We can’t even get reliable wall joining, after years.  There’s a decent cabinet PIO that I tried out, but it’s not worth all the extra dollars you have to pay to get it on top of what you’ve already paid for Vectorworks.  Maybe I’m old fashioned, but I think I should be getting something for my money.

[line-weight]

2 hours ago, P Retondo said:

but if you’ve been following this board for a few years, you should surely know all the complaints about architectural PIOs and parametric objects.

Yeah, it would be a bit worrying if all this were news to the folks at VW HQ.

[Samuel Derenboim]

Maybe I am wrong about this, but regardless of the situation at VW, i must still say I am pretty thankful. Lets give some perspective to the competition and see what all of the people complaining are facing.

1. Vectorworks Architect License (subscription) costs about as much as Autocad. In my opinion, autocad is probably the least productive program to use (at least from my perspective) in the industry. Although, I have not tried microstation or other cad programs framed after autocad, but I digress. I will mix in all programs framed after Autocad a similar platform. 

2. Compared to Autocad, Vectorworks features blows it out of the water, to say the least. Yes, we do not have allll of the features that would be ideal for everyone, but I know that using vectorworks I myself can replace a team. Should you be curious about the work I do, please visit https://www.autographarch.com. All buildings that have been built and designed therein were all done in Vectorworks - and only by one person per project.

3. I have compared Vectorworks features with Revit (a more comparable software) and Archicad. Revit is its own headache to use with problems with export to pdf, editing 2 dimensional information, stability problems, and all around lack of customization. The bottom line - Revit costs 2.2 times more than Vectorworks. Let thank sink in. Anyone running a business here will know this alone can make you stay afloat if you have multiple people working for you.

4. I also saw the features coming for Archicad. For this year, I have not seen anything particularly spectacular on the road map. I can't say much about archicad given I haven't used it and it also looks like great software, but it is still twice as expensive as Vectorworks, but it shares the same con as vectorworks in terms of talent pool - and this is neither Vectorworks nor Archicad's fault per se. Revit and Autocad are the industry standard unfortunately.

 

My two cents. I am sorry for the rant, but its becoming quite frustrating for me to see people complaining when I see that the team at VW are doing their best to accommodate our needs. Hopefully one day they're not going to change policy and say - youll get what you get...much akin to what Autodesk does. 

Additionally I believe I can say this because I do not work for Vectorworks, so I can take the brunt of any criticism coming my way. The staff at VW cannot. So i can take it 😉

 

Anyways, Staff at VW, keep up the great work! There are still people that believe in you! And I look forward to 2024 !

Edited August 9, 2023 by Samuel Derenboim

[cberg]

That said...  We have gone a couple of Tuesdays in August without a teaser... 

Edited August 9, 2023 by cberg

[zoomer]

20 minutes ago, cberg said:

That said...  We have gone a couple of Tuesdays in August without a teaser... 

 

 

Maybe no new features to teaser this year (?)

Edited August 9, 2023 by zoomer

[SteveJ]

We are always energized by the forum. And we find motivation and incentive from all the feedback we see. But every now and then... we do enjoy a gust of wind like above... it can help fill our sails. We are here listening and trying to serve you and your design as best we can. Thanks to the entire community!

[Matt Overton]

12 hours ago, Samuel Derenboim said:

Revit costs 2.2 times more than Vectorworks. Let thank sink in. Anyone running a business here will know this alone can make you stay afloat if you have multiple people working for you.

 

I've been on secondment to another local office that uses Revit to help with some project-specific knowledge. Most of the time I'm using just the Viewer Version which is actually the full version but can't save or print the markups you do. 

 

So far what I'm seeing is for all its advantages Revit does have major drawbacks that make it dependent on a second-tier CAD program for workflow. Sure it might be capable but at the cost per seat it would be a hard ask to expect companies to have the extra seats needed when a cheaper CAD will do that work better anyway. 

Also not great for initial concept work where certainly VW kills it and would make a great partner to Revit with a better translation system for larger offices from what I've seen. 

 

Would love to see signs of a distinct strategy here in VW2024. Working better with other apps opens up the market for VW to be in offices as that freer BIM app but also make staying on VW as an existing user earlier. 

 

[P Retondo]

Ok, hate to be that guy, but although I have used Vectorworks for 28 years for good reason (also know AutoCAD and Archicad), all the advantages of VW were there 10 years ago, and for all I’ve paid since then I see precious little improvement.  VW engineers say on this thread they are listening, but it seems like they are more interested in being praised than actually paying attention to very longstanding complaints.  Give us a window PIO that creates a sill in a non-ridiculous way, or a stairs PIO that actually reflects architectural reality, and I will be happy to heap praise for the next three years.

 

(Hint: a window sill is not a sill superimposed on a head jamb.)

Edited August 12, 2023 by P Retondo

[line-weight]

Perhaps we just have to accept that we are stuck using software that has a rather limited and niche market (3d modelling aimed specifically at building construction), and therefore Vectorworks *and* any alternatives just aren't going to see major improvements any time soon. Nor are we likely to see meaningful competition from new players that might shake some of the established software companies out of their complacency.

 

My impression is that with nearly all the things that could be improved about Vectorworks; the obstacles aren't fundamental technical ones, they are to do with the amount of resources that those in charge are willing to put towards them. This is why, whenever I am moaning about Vectorworks, I try to make clear that my frustrations aren't directed at the employees who presumably work hard trying to improve things, they are directed at the management level who decide not to resource development, which I think is why progress goes at such a deathly slow pace.

 

Also ... Vectorworks, as a 2D drawing package is actually fairly mature. Most of the big issues are to do with using it fully for 3d modelling and using the 3d model to produce the working drawings. Many of us active on these forums are trying to use it in that way - but I wonder whether in reality, we represent a minority of users. Practices in the construction industry are notoriously slow to change, and I suspect that there's a large portion of the user base who still just use it in 2d, therefore reducing further the incentive for its 3d/BIM capabilities to be developed quickly.

 

I have little recent experience with other 3d modelling packages, aimed at the mechanical engineering or more general sectors, but from what I see of them, it appears that they are miles ahead of VW as far as their basic modelling logic and interfaces are concerned. Some like Blender aren't even paid for. Watching youtube videos of people modelling in these programs, to me, makes the VW interface look especially old fashioned and clunky. Maybe it's partly that producing something optimised for building design is especially difficult (I can see plausible reasons for this being the case) but it must also be to do with the sizes of the potential markets. The number of people using something like Blender must dwarf the number of Vectorworks users trying to do proper 3d modelling.

[P Retondo]

7 hours ago, line-weight said:

the obstacles aren't fundamental technical ones, they are to do with the amount of resources that those in charge are willing to put towards them

I agree, lineweight.  That is why it is particularly frustrating when I see VW management prioritizing new whizz bang features that never really work and sink out of sight, instead of getting down to fixing some longstanding flaws.  It’s like car designers who developed grotesque tail fins instead of fixing basic flaws in transmissions.

[line-weight]

1 hour ago, P Retondo said:

I agree, lineweight.  That is why it is particularly frustrating when I see VW management prioritizing new whizz bang features that never really work and sink out of sight, instead of getting down to fixing some longstanding flaws.  It’s like car designers who developed grotesque tail fins instead of fixing basic flaws in transmissions.

Yes.

[cberg]

While I appreciate the perspective of the folks above, I also think that the some of the whiz-bang features are pretty useful. 

 

For example, Graphic Legends have really helped my project documentation. I use them to generate partition types, door types, and window schedules.  Sure, there were some bugs along the way.  But the bugs get worked out. It often takes a few Service Packs or releases. 

 

There are also features that don't seem interesting at launch but become much more valuable over time.  Data Visualization comes to mind in that regard.  I use the tool regularly, but it took me four or five years to really figure out how it might benefit me.

 

With some tools, the present-day implementation remains a bit kludgy.  (The Space and Stair Tools certainly need some help still.) 

 

That said, I prefer working with software that innovates.  Using a tool that gets stuck in time has it's own set of problems, because eventually that software stops being useful (Sketchup comes to mind in that regard...) 

 

VW is unusual in that it markets itself as interdisciplinary software.  This has drawbacks and benefits.  The BIM tools are not as robust as ArchiCAD or Revit.  However, the software does many things, albeit much more generally.  The 3D Modeling, Visualization, lighting, and landscape work together in one package, but certainly not all perfectly.   

 

The quirks and flexibility allow me to use the software to explore ideas, solve problems, and communicate these solutions to others.

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by cberg

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

This thread is not what I thought, but interesting none the less.

Although I doubt anyone at Vectorworks would admit this, but I have always thought that Vectorworks is aimed at the intermediate user for a reason and it is a very simple reason.  That is where the money is.  There are vastly more intermediate users of 3D software in general than advanced users.  In the various discussions since joining the forum, the 3D players are always the same people.  Maybe 10 or bit more.  Removing those players from the VW’s subscription list won’t change their bottom line.  Take out the intermediate users and the company goes bankrupt.

This is not to say that advance or highly advanced users are inhibited by VW’s, only that they are not the target user.  There are tools in Vectorworks that mitigate having to learn how to 3D model, walls, roof, window symbols, site modifiers, etc., but they are of great importance to new users. 

 

New Users, "that is where the money is".

 

[Tom W.]

11 hours ago, VIRTUALENVIRONS said:

This is not to say that advance or highly advanced users are inhibited by VW’s, only that they are not the target user.  There are tools in Vectorworks that mitigate having to learn how to 3D model, walls, roof, window symbols, site modifiers, etc., but they are of great importance to new users. 

 

Paul maybe I've misunderstood but are you really suggesting that people are only using the Wall, Roof, Window, Site Model, etc tools because they don't know how to model these objects from scratch + it's the easier option...??

 

I'd say the bulk of what VW does is geared towards the 'advanced' user + they devote a lot of time + effort to encouraging people to understand + use these features because that's when VW really comes into its own.

[Claes Lundstrom]

2 hours ago, Tom W. said:

 

Paul maybe I've misunderstood but are you really suggesting that people are only using the Wall, Roof, Window, Site Model, etc tools because they don't know how to model these objects from scratch + it's the easier option...??

 

I'd say the bulk of what VW does is geared towards the 'advanced' user + they devote a lot of time + effort to encouraging people to understand + use these features because that's when VW really comes into its own.

Knowing how to model from scratch in not an easer option, but knowing how to means that you can take things far beyond the limitations of the existing tools. I have seen it so many times, where users avoid certain things that should have been there simply because they don't know how to do it. Knowing how to model anything from scratch therefore means that you have effectively reached a much higher level of know-how.

[Tom W.]

1 minute ago, Claes Lundstrom said:

Knowing how to model from scratch in not an easer option, but knowing how to means that you can take things far beyond the limitations of the existing tools. I have seen it so many times, where users avoid certain things that should have been there simply because they don't know how to do it. Knowing how to model anything from scratch therefore means that you have effectively reached a much higher level of know-how.

 

It depends what you mean by limitations + the kinds of objects you're talking about. @VIRTUALENVIRONS mentioned BIM objects such as Walls, Roofs, Site Models, etc. + suggested that people were modelling objects using these tools because it was easier than using the 3D tools. I would suggest these can incredibly complex tools to use which many people are failing to utilise to their full potential + even 'advanced' users struggle with at times: you could argue that a new VW user would find it easier to model a building SketchUp-style using Extrudes, etc than with the parametric architectural tools. But we use parametric objects because despite their limitations + complexity they are ultimately much more powerful than 3D solids + allow you to do a ton of other stuff other than just 3D visuals. 

 

That's not to say that 3D modelling isn't important, I'm just not sure we need to create a hierarchy of tools/users. People are using VW in a variety of different ways for a range of different outcomes.