VW2024

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My guess is that the most significant split of users (and relevant to what tools get update/improved/fixed in what ways) is between those who are using it as a primarily 2d tool and those who are using it in full 3d capability.

 

For example things like wall closures are useful for those who just use wall objects in top/plan view in 2d, as well as those who use wall objects in 3d, and generate sections etc from them.

 

Something like sill details in window objects ... doesn't really affect the 2d top/plan user, but is a right pain for anyone building in 3d. And that might be part of the reason it's gone unfixed for years and years - the complaints come from 3d users who (I'm guessing) are in the minority or at least were until quite recently.

[Tom W.]

6 minutes ago, line-weight said:

Something like sill details in window objects ... doesn't really affect the 2d top/plan user, but is a right pain for anyone building in 3d.

 

Ironically for me the Window Sill works better in 3D than it does in 2D because in Top/Plan the sill obscures my Wall Closures. In 3D I generally use my own internal window board (I have an Auto Hybrid red symbol it is relatively quick to insert + resize) + this covers the stupid 3D sill that extends all the way back to the inner face of the Wall + stops it looking awful.

 

I am interested to see the changes to sills in VW2024 (there was a video on Megabits before got removed...)

 

2D/3D aside there are all sorts of features to do with worksheets, Graphic Legends, data visualisation, data tags, data manager, Materials, etc that I guess a lot of people aren't benefiting from because they choose not to use them or don't need to, but for many people these are massively important developments that make slowness in improving other areas more tolerable.

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

6 hours ago, Tom W. said:

I'd say the bulk of what VW does is geared towards the 'advanced' user

 

3 hours ago, Claes Lundstrom said:

Knowing how to model anything from scratch therefore means that you have effectively reached a much higher level of know-how.

Good morning Gentlemen,

Let me first begin by saying that my statement is my opinion and not gospel.  The fact that two highly capable users responded with opposing opinions highlights that there is something to discuss.  I do see Tom's point in that these tools have become so specialized that it takes time and dedication to master them.

 

But, as Claes stated, if you are going to build boats, you need next level.  Perhaps there are two disciplines here and I may have missed that as I dismissed walls, roofs, etc. many years ago.

 

My last statement on the original thread., "New users, that's where the money is".  From what I have been able to pull together Vectorworks has at least three times the users of Rhino 3D.  Rhino 3D would have more users than C4D, etc.  As each program goes up in capability and difficulty, the number of users lowers.  Blender is free so it can't be counted in. 

 

 

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I don't think anyone would seriously use VW to model boats. Or for any kind of mechanical/industrial design.

 

VW does have some relatively powerful 3d tools for modelling from scratch. But the only serious use of these is by those who are using VW for architectural/landscape/lighting design to fill in the gaps where the standard tools can't model something.

[Tom W.]

1 minute ago, VIRTUALENVIRONS said:

But, as Claes stated, if you are going to build boats, you need next level.  

 

I agree that if I was going to build a boat I would probably avoid using the Wall, Roof, Site Model, etc tools 🙂 But then if I was boat designer would I be using VW at all? Surely its primary functions are architectural design/landscape design/lighting design + so much of its functionality is bound up in those disciplines, why would you invest in all that capability if you weren't going to use any of it...? Question for @Claes Lundstrom.

[line-weight]

23 minutes ago, Tom W. said:

 

2D/3D aside there are all sorts of features to do with worksheets, Graphic Legends, data visualisation, data tags, data manager, Materials, etc that I guess a lot of people aren't benefiting from because they choose not to use them or don't need to, but for many people these are massively important developments that make slowness in improving other areas more tolerable.

 

Sure. But the same slowness in fixing stuff affects these new things too.

 

I'd probably be using materials, for example, now if it weren't for the fact that there are certain things they can't be applied to. I wait for these inconsistencies to be ironed out so that I can give any object in my model a material. How long that'll take who knows. Maybe 2024 will do it, or maybe it'll be 2030.

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

7 minutes ago, Tom W. said:

ts primary functions are architectural design/landscape design/lighting design

As you say, clearly Vectorworks primary functions are architecture and it's derivative's.  Again, that is where the money is.  

But, why buy Rhino when you can build it in Vectorworks.  I don't want to get into this can of worms again, you have been on lots of those threads😀.  You have also seen many of the cars, jets, boats, etc. that I build.  Vectorworks is well aware those tools exists, but don't promote them.  Although I have had a long mutually beneficial relationship with vecttorworks (MiniCAD 1), they have always played down the programs capability.  This would be another topic.

[Tom W.]

Materials in VW2024 can be assigned to Doors/Windows I believe, which is the example often given for why people have yet to start using them. But in my personal opinion not using Materials because you can't assign them to Doors is missing out on tons of really great functionality for zero benefit: like choosing to not use Walls because VW doesn't allow you to batter them.

 

But this is my personal experience relating to the way I work + the things I find important (Wall/Slab/Roof styles + the data attached to components).

 

My bugbear is Data Tags which I think are amazing things + a real pleasure to use in many respects but can be a complete pain to use in section VPs where it's often impossible to get them to associate to the object in question: so a really flexible, sophisticated + powerful tool that falls down at the last hurdle. But I still use them + am grateful for them + the year-on-year improvements that VW has made to them.

 

I guess it's whether you see the glass as half full or half empty

[Tom W.]

Just now, VIRTUALENVIRONS said:

As you say, clearly Vectorworks primary functions are architecture and it's derivative's.  Again, that is where the money is.  

But, why buy Rhino when you can build it in Vectorworks.  I don't want to get into this can of worms again, you have been on lots of those threads😀.  You have also seen many of the cars, jets, boats, etc. that I build.  Vectorworks is well aware those tools exists, but don't promote them.  Although I have had a long mutually beneficial relationship with vecttorworks (MiniCAD 1), they have always played down the programs capability.  This would be another topic.

 

Oh my god did you just say landscape design + lighting design were derivatives of architectural design? Good luck with that one... 😁

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

Just now, Tom W. said:

Oh my god did you just say landscape design + lighting design were derivatives of architectural design? Good luck with that one

It is Saturday!  This will likely be the only thread.😀 

 

I have often stated in my posts that I don't understand the language of Architecture, Lighting design, etc. and I suppose my last statement was a "faux pas", but I think you get the drift.

 

Set that aside if we can, your previous post on Materials was completely above my head.  I really don't understand these parts of Vectorworks.  Mainly I suppose because as soon as I build something it goes to C4D and has since 2001.  There may be more to Vectorworks Walls and roofs than I thought.

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18 minutes ago, Tom W. said:

Materials in VW2024 can be assigned to Doors/Windows I believe, which is the example often given for why people have yet to start using them. But in my personal opinion not using Materials because you can't assign them to Doors is missing out on tons of really great functionality for zero benefit: like choosing to not use Walls because VW doesn't allow you to batter them.

I thought there were other things too, but may be wrong.

 

Will be reviewing my policy once 2024 becomes usable, in any case!

 

 

[mjm]

2 hours ago, Tom W. said:

I guess it's whether you see the glass as half full or half empty

@Tom W.—and that depends on the day, hour or minute of one's VWX life, eh?

[Tom W.]

46 minutes ago, mjm said:

@Tom W.—and that depends on the day, hour or minute of one's VWX life, eh?

 

or whether placing Data Tags 😁

[Emma E.]

I am running VW 2024 on Mac Monterey and anytime I try to copy lights in from a separate file the program crashes. 

[klinzey]

@Emma E. Can you post a sample file. I'm running Monterey too and in a quick test I could not reproduce the crash.