Jump to content
Wes Gardner

No Stories, No Problem

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)
On 6/15/2019 at 4:42 PM, Zeno said:

I don’t understand why people can’t understand stories.. it’s a very powerful tool, foundamental for paramethric and BIM worflow!

 

It may be powerful but in my, all be it limited trial & error (heavy on the error) I find the storeys function to be counter intuitive in both the interface & the way one adjusts and edits. Things may be better now, and as with any new workflow, one has to get used to the change to overcome misgivings and early frustrations. I for one, will give this a workflow a wide berth until we are engaged in a project that's greater than three storeys in height.  

So that's the thing with VW I like, one is not forced into one particular workflow; for example I have a colleague who does everything with 2D lines. 

Edited by Jim Smith
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

@Jim Smith, agreed. 

 

My main point to anyone for posting the instructions and model files without stories is to show that you CAN build a perfectly fine information model without stories.  I sometimes make the claim that stories "buys" you a little more automation when it comes to change management as well as "automatically" mapping layers to stories when using IFC.  However, you CAN manually map those layers and still produce a fine IFC model.

 

It really comes down to your wall styles.  IF they are set up with level bounding conditions, they WILL NOT work in a model that does not use stories.  However, a layer bound wall style WILL work in a level-bound (Story) model. (Assuming you use "Layer Wall Height" and include a height in the appropriate design layer)

 

I'm not sure you can call either system "simple" or "intuitive" but I think that a layer bound system is a little easier to get going with BUT PLEASE be sure your wall styles are set up to accommodate this set-up scenario (there ARE wall styles that ship with the program that are set up to be used with stories and will "pancake" in a layer bound system)

 

Once again, I'm always open to discussing how to set up a model.

 

Wes

  • Like 1
  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, Wes Gardner said:

@Jim Smith, agreed. 

 

My main point to anyone for posting the instructions and model files without stories is to show that you CAN build a perfectly fine information model without stories.  I sometimes make the claim that stories "buys" you a little more automation when it comes to change management as well as "automatically" mapping layers to stories when using IFC.  However, you CAN manually map those layers and still produce a fine IFC model.

 

It really comes down to your wall styles.  IF they are set up with level bounding conditions, they WILL NOT work in a model that does not use stories.  However, a layer bound wall style WILL work in a level-bound (Story) model. (Assuming you use "Layer Wall Height" and include a height in the appropriate design layer)

 

I'm not sure you can call either system "simple" or "intuitive" but I think that a layer bound system is a little easier to get going with BUT PLEASE be sure your wall styles are set up to accommodate this set-up scenario (there ARE wall styles that ship with the program that are set up to be used with stories and will "pancake" in a layer bound system)

 

Once again, I'm always open to discussing how to set up a model.

 

Wes

I really needed to see this written down. Thank you Wes.

 

Share this post


Link to post

I describe it thusly:

 

[Stories & their associated Levels] work only with [Story & Level aware Walls] and vice versa.

 

Level names defined in the [Wall Styles] need to exist in the [Story setup] and vice versa

Share this post


Link to post
On 6/15/2019 at 10:42 PM, Zeno said:

I don’t understand why people can’t understand stories.. it’s a very powerful tool, foundamental for paramethric and BIM worflow!

 

Storeys are not difficult to understand, but their interface in VW is. It is messy.

There are too many cryptical alerts and levels appear/disappear in too many flavours, across various quirksome dialogs.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)

My main tip—unless your building is simple like the one Wes posted and will not change much through the design process—is to forget about auto-binding slabs to walls. Or you'll forever be rebinding them. Instead manually shape your slabs (using separate layers for structural slab, finishing slab and ceiling) to exactly where you know they need to be and then manually set all the Wall Component tops and bottoms for each wall instance to suit. It sounds like a lot of work but in my experience it's less work and stress than constantly managing slab/wall bindings that keep breaking. You can also autobound slabs to begin with and then manually reshape as needed.

Edited by Christiaan
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

I'm in the process of trying this new story workflow. I've always done floors as slabs or layers and refined them as needed. One for joists, one for plywood, one for gyp or concrete fill - Like Christiaan described above. I think like a contractor (coming from actually building things) so my flow is very much like building. From the ground up, one 'thing' at a time. If that thing is suitably complicated, or needs to be in the drawing with suitable detail, I make a new layer for it. I never took time to use the binding functionality of walls to floors. it feels easier to just get my horizontal/walking surface planes built, then build the walls up to wherever they are supposed to end. If a wall is supposed to hit the ceiling above, at some point I will be bound by the overall height of the structure. The wall height usually dictates the ceiling level, not the other way around for me. So Stories seems to be a natural solution for that, but I just haven't really worked through the tool. Thanks again @Wes Gardner for the tips. Maybe i'll give it another push.

Share this post


Link to post

We haven't experimented with stories yet, but just wondering whether the community has any thoughts on whether they would be useful for a sloping landscape site (as most are!) or whether to steer clear unless you're working on a building with flat planes (which we're generally not, we are landscape architects and it's usually not as simple as flat terraces!)

Share this post


Link to post

@tekbench...just remember, if you want to give stories a go, you MUST use level-bound wall styles so that they will "know" what/where to "look" for a given level.  It also helps in many cases, to create an additional story above your normal story set-up so that the walls on the upper-most floor still have a "Underside of Structure [Story Above]" (or whatever you choose to call your levels) to bind to...otherwise, those upper-most walls will be flat (no height)

 

As always, let me know if you run into difficulty and I'll try to help you get sorted

 

Wes

Share this post


Link to post

@Amanda McDermott...not sure the extent that you're designing the building but I'd build the building first with the first story elevation set at 0'-0".  Then after you've established what the "real world" elevation will be for that first floor, you can enter that number into the first floor story elevation - you'll be asked if you want to "Move All the Stories Above" where you answer "Yes" and all should work out.

 

An alternative is to not use stories at all and just build your model as outlined in the instruction set for "No Stories, No Problem"

Share this post


Link to post

@Wes Gardner Thanks - it's hypothetical at present, we tend to be working with an architect who would design a building, and we're working around it. I suspect not bothering with stories is the answer! I asked because I know my colleague was having trouble the other day with a sloping site where she couldn't get the trees to sit nicely on top of the sloping 'terrain' (which actually was just drawn as a 3D poly I think rather than a terrain model - still, should be able to get one 3D 'thing' to snap to another, surely?) Can stories be set to a slope, theoretically?

Share this post


Link to post

@Amanda McDermott...answered via e-mail...for others' benefits, stories are pretty much a "flat earth :-)" thing - they use levels which can be considered horizontal planes in space that provide automation for height constraints for walls and other "story aware", or "level-aware" objects

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)

Ciao Wes,

 

when layer-less levels where introduced I asked for storey-less levels.

I don't understand why do we need storeys since we can simply map them during export.

Edited by _c_

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)

Expanding, every Vectorworks user sees a Design Layer, whose elevation and wall height are set, as a storey.

 

 

Edited by _c_
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Wes,

I’m working in VW Architect 2017, could you save the files to this format. I plan to update soon, however I want to get review these files soon.

Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


 

7150 Riverwood Drive, Columbia, Maryland 21046, USA   |   Contact Us:   410-290-5114

 

© 2018 Vectorworks, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Vectorworks, Inc. is part of the Nemetschek Group.

×
×
  • Create New...