No Stories, No Problem

[zeno]

To be honest, I wouldn't know how I'd do it without stories to model this. 1 buildings, 3 towers 18 stories, every story 3 design layer. 54 layers generated automaticallly so...

 

thanks stories and.. learn stories

 

 

[Guest Wes Gardner]

@Zeno, great looking model!

 

[Guest Wes Gardner]

@Zeno, I don't know if you'd be able to due to client confidentiality, but if you could post your set-up file so others could see, it might encourage folks to try.

 

Maybe strip out all the geometry, sheet layers, etc and just leave the story set-up?

 

Wes

[zeno]

1 hour ago, Wes Gardner said:

@Zeno, great looking model!

 

oh thanks Wes, later i’ll post the set up file

[zeno]

On 10/11/2019 at 2:13 PM, Wes Gardner said:

@Zeno, I don't know if you'd be able to due to client confidentiality, but if you could post your set-up file so others could see, it might encourage folks to try.

 

Maybe strip out all the geometry, sheet layers, etc and just leave the story set-up?

 

Wes

 

Here you are

 

ISSUE: before creating stories, I'm used to sketch a schema, like the attached one. Maybe it can not correspond with the file, but it is very useful before start. It's easy and quickly, then you can have more control.

 

 

Stories.vwx

Edited October 14, 2019 by Zeno

[_c_]

Ciao Zeno, do you use a common Z for all buildings or every building has its own project zero?

Accordingly, how do you set up the Reference Elevation in the Export IFC Project settings?

 

 

[zeno]

Why must I write in English with an Italian user -_-

 

So, I'm used to set the global 0 in a specific point on site. From there I start to set the project. For IFC Export I didn't change any parameters on reference elevation.

 

 

[_c_]

Thank you Zeno, 😀

 

... I just have been reproached that I speak a total mix between German and English!

I think that we will do a common zero for the project. We must use the coordinates during IFC export, so, let's go for "common zero".

[zeno]

On 10/15/2019 at 8:12 PM, _c_ said:

Thank you Zeno, 😀

 

... I just have been reproached that I speak a total mix between German and English!

I think that we will do a common zero for the project. We must use the coordinates during IFC export, so, let's go for "common zero".

Wenn du möchtest, possiamo parlare a mix of the three launguages, für nächste Mal. 

[jcsanabria]

Hi all! @Wes Gardner, is there any possibility of having the files first published with this thread. They aren't available any more. I've been using Vectorworks for more than 20 years, but I'm new to stories. I was interested in checking these files as the ones in the "Model Set Up (Revisited for 2019)" thread, which aren't available also. Thanks!Hi all! @Wes Gardner, is there any possibility of having the files first published with this thread. They aren't available any more. I've been using Vectorworks for more than 20 years, but I'm new to stories. I was interested in checking these files as the ones in the "Model Set Up (Revisited for 2019)" thread, which aren't available also. Thanks!

[gester]

On 10/15/2019 at 6:37 AM, _c_ said:

Ciao Zeno, do you use a common Z for all buildings or every building has its own project zero?

Accordingly, how do you set up the Reference Elevation in the Export IFC Project settings?

 

 

 

do you export one building or all of them in one ifc file?

 

it's not possible to have many 'zero' levels in one vw file, the zeno's approach is the right one.

you can but reference all edifices as separate design layers in a file with the whole plot setup (eg. all buildings are in 1:50 scale, and are referenced in the 1:500 raumordnungsplan)...

rob 

 

[E|FA]

@Wes Gardner This post & your attached files might be the best resources VW has available to explain project setup & sheet layers.  PLEASE can we get updated versions showing best practices for using the 2021 material resources and generating & annotating SLVPs?  Adding coordination between DTM & building model (through references?) would be a bonus.

 

This could be as a post here, VW University, a webinar, etc...

 

Thanks

[Christiaan]

On 7/2/2020 at 9:06 AM, gester said:

do you export one building or all of them in one ifc file?

 

Curious to know this too. The AEC UK BIM protocol says no more than one building to be modelled in a single file, with a separate container model to bring them together. (Then again it also recommends one Sheet per file for data tracking purposes!) Whether you export all buildings to one file or not depends on the requirements of the people you're sending it to I guess.

[The Anorak]

Hi All, I have a question to weigh into the stories debate. Do you use separate plot files or have all of your sheets/documentation coming out of the model file? I've come up with issues a few times where the stories change throughout the design process and the individual plot files start to have errors because the stories are no longer identical. Even if we then manually fix the changes sometimes these errors still persist. Has anyone had experience with this? For me, it seems super counter-intuitive that you shouldn't be able to have the stories referenced into a plot file and updated with the model every time they change. 

[gester]

1 hour ago, Christiaan said:

..The AEC UK BIM protocol says no more than one building to be modelled in a single file, with a separate container model to bring them together...

 

such container would be a separately required (by polish law) site development plan (which is in a 1:500, or sometimes 1:1000 scale). this plan is in world coordinates (required by the authorities of the infrastructure planning), and with true north orientation, as opposed to the edifice models that are in 1:50 or 1:100. 

 

the edifice models are referenced in the site model, and all changes in storeys are handled separately for each building. i use such a workflow for years, but i will listen to other options.

rob

[Ramon PG]

On 5/28/2019 at 1:58 PM, Wes Gardner said:

Hi All,

 

Several folks have asked about model set-up and how to get started when moving from 2D to 3D and on into a BIM workflow.  Here are some instructions describing how to set up a blank file and create layers, walls, etc. without the need for stories.  There are two example/practice files that I highly recommend you "reverse engineer" the wall styles, slab styles, etc. so that you can see how the offsets work, etc.  Also, read the instructions all the way through first.

 

Oh, by the way, PLEASE let me know if there's a mistake or if something isn't clear.  The Vectorworks files are in 2019...I can certainly back save them if you need.

 

You may want to compare this set-up scenario to the one(s) described in the thread "Model Set-Up" where the set-up, which I call a "Level-Bound" set-up REQUIRES the use of stories.

 

I've included some minor editing for 2021, mainly a mention of Materials that really doesn't affect the workflow at all.

 

Enjoy

 

Wes

 

 

 

 

 

 

Layer Bound Simple.vwx

Layer Bound Special Slab.vwx

Layer Bounding.docx 872.03 kB · 44 downloads

Thanks for this. Stories admittedly is very powerful, yet not intuitive to implement bc of so many factors and items that inter relate but are not well explained in the Help or Tutorials.

[zoomer]

On 10/14/2019 at 4:52 PM, zeno said:

 

Here you are

 

ISSUE: before creating stories, I'm used to sketch a schema, like the attached one. Maybe it can not correspond with the file, but it is very useful before start. It's easy and quickly, then you can have more control.

 

 

Stories.vwx

 

Ciao @zeno

 

 

 

Hmmh,

 

I have never seen this kind of Setup before.

 

Basically you are using just VW Stories but no Levels (?)

(You are using a few Levels, but 80% of them are at 0.00 Offset to Story)

Therefore no way to bind PIOs to different Levels like

"Bottom of Structure Story above"

 

And you still need to Assign Layer Wall Heights.

 

So the only advantage using Stories+(no)Levels for changes is,

that neighbored Stories (and their bound Layers)

will intelligently react to a change of an intermediate Story Z change.

 

In case of a Story's overall height change, you would still need to manually adapt

Layer Wall heights selectively (?).

 

 

EDIT :

OK, automatic Layer generation by Stories.

Edited December 10, 2021 by zoomer

[zoomer]

Since the release of VW's Stories and Levels (VW 2015 ?) I had a created

full Story+Level Setup + PIO binding for any Project.

 

As VW's Story+Level System is still so clunky and tedious for individual

Level offsets from standard and as many PIOs types can't be bound to

Stories+Levels anyway,

I meanwhile switched back to old school dumb Layer Heights and

Layer Wall Heights.

 

This isn't much more tedious or error prone to changes anyway.

I haven't regretted so far at all.

 

 

But for my projects I would not even want 6 Layers per Story as it makes

Visibility Control tedious. I try to have only 1 or 2 Layers per Story.

Instead I try to control it with my "Container" Classes.

[zeno]

On 12/10/2021 at 8:28 PM, zoomer said:

 

Ciao @zeno

 

 

 

Hmmh,

 

I have never seen this kind of Setup before.

 

Basically you are using just VW Stories but no Levels (?)

(You are using a few Levels, but 80% of them are at 0.00 Offset to Story)

Therefore no way to bind PIOs to different Levels like

"Bottom of Structure Story above"

 

And you still need to Assign Layer Wall Heights.

 

So the only advantage using Stories+(no)Levels for changes is,

that neighbored Stories (and their bound Layers)

will intelligently react to a change of an intermediate Story Z change.

 

In case of a Story's overall height change, you would still need to manually adapt

Layer Wall heights selectively (?).

 

 

EDIT :

OK, automatic Layer generation by Stories.

exactly. This work was setted in this directions. Actually i use a lot of levels

for better detail

[zoomer]

On 8/8/2019 at 7:00 PM, _c_ said:

Ciao Wes,

 

when layer-less levels where introduced I asked for storey-less levels.

I don't understand why do we need storeys since we can simply map them during export.

 

I also asked for storey-less levels.

 

But not because "since we can simply map them during export" but because we can't

e.g. reach a Level X "3 Stories above" and because it would be handy to have Story

independent Levels for multi Story Objects like for Facades.

 

 

"since we can simply map them during export"

 

Where do you exactly map Stories - in IFC export dialog ?

I see that the export dialog for me only shows Stories to select - which I already applied

in Story Settings.

I realized it when I forgot to delete 2 Stories in my Template File, which I used for my

new Story+Level-less project setup.

 

 

My point is,

and as I understand Zeno's Setup,

That nevertheless it would make sense to create Stories and a few basic Levels

ALTHOUGH I want to run a Story-Less old school setup.

 

[zoomer]

And another question,

where could I set IFC Buildings in VW ?

 

As like Zeno,

I basically have 2 separate Buildings in my single File.

And as their Stories differ, I have duplicate Layers for each Building.

(And even 2 of them per Story for each Building)

Which makes it a bit tedious to switch visibilities.

 

Even if I create a Story+(no Levels)+Layer Setup.

It would export both Story Sets as a single Building which would not help much.

 

(Maybe I could organize (manually or automaticallyby AI) all IFC Site/Building/Level

much easier in Bricscad, when without VW's information)

[_c_]

7 hours ago, zoomer said:

And another question,

where could I set IFC Buildings in VW ?

 

As like Zeno,

I basically have 2 separate Buildings in my single File.

And as their Stories differ, I have duplicate Layers for each Building.

(And even 2 of them per Story for each Building)

Which makes it a bit tedious to switch visibilities.

 

Even if I create a Story+(no Levels)+Layer Setup.

It would export both Story Sets as a single Building which would not help much.

 

(Maybe I could organize (manually or automaticallyby AI) all IFC Site/Building/Level

much easier in Bricscad, when without VW's information)

 

Ciao Zoomer, I don't think that you can: VW sees the document as a building. Also, you get into quite a construction for the IFC Export dialog: this does allow to export what's visible, but doesn't allow to store configurations, so you would have either to map very very carefully the storey names or re-list the needed levels in there each time.

 

[zoomer]

Thanks @_c_

 

I assumed you would do some voodoo via datamanager or such things.

So I conclude, for IFC exports it is necessary to set up VW Stories even

if you don't use them (with Levels), but define Stories for export.

It doesn't hurt much though.

 

1 File = 1 Building

It doesn't make much sense here to reference both Buildings into a master file

as I want to work at both at a time and use the same resources.

 

All points to a @zeno Story Setup.

And if the Stories are already there I could make some use of them like

for Layer creation and such.

[line-weight]

I have been finding that my approach of having one storey, and assigning all layers to that storey works ok. I don't even use layer elevations; they are all set to zero so that I can copy & paste objects between layers without them jumping in Z height. The objects that can be, are bound by levels.

 

Doesn't work so well when I want to copy things between storeys and I *do* want the z height to be automatically changed. So would probably not be good for buildings with many repetitive storeys.

 

And I don't have to worry about IFC export stuff.

 

I wish more objects could have their Z elevation set relative to levels.

[arquitextonica]

Thans to @zeno and @zoomer for the precious imput.
If I may ask deeper... I believe I´d go with a mix of both workflows. Master file with "everything" (layers, storeys and reference heights with no-layers) but my problem is ONCE I have the master file and the different guest files, how do you manage the references? Do you lay them all in a single design layer? Do you copy them repeatedly to create the different floorplans for all the different levels? That is the problem I can´t tackle!!