Frame stops for Door Tool

[Christiaan]

We need the door tool to support frame stops. These can be both planted or rebated, as attached image.

 

We need this for a number of reasons:

• Correct visual representation in 3D and 2D views
• The ability to visually check that we're providing the correct clear opening
• For accurate scheduling

 

See also:

https://forum.vectorworks.net/index.php?/topic/64381-window-and-door-tool-maturity/

 

Edited April 27 by Christiaan

[Kevin McAllister]

This is definitely needed for entertainment design where the shop often builds from the details on the drawing rather than buying stock doors.

KM

[Jim Smith]

As our Building Code Changed in 2015 and we need 860 clear path of travel. As most North American Door manufactures generally don't make a 860 clear commercial door the alternative is to go from the old standard 915 (36") door to a 965 (38") door. We have found the need due to space considerations, to use a 915 door so we have specified special order doors. The result is we need to show smaller stops within the door frame in some instances to prove to a building official that we have 860 CLEAR path of travel through a door. So we draw the frame stop in & mark all doors SIM. Having the ability to show a door stop in a frame would be great! (So would a standard 925 or 930 commercial door btw)

Edited April 30, 2018 by Jim Smith

[whashisface]

I agree with Christiaan. This needs improving ASAP!

[Christiaan]

bump

[JasonMichael]

Just came to make this request, this is a must. My boss (a hand-drafting dinosaur) thinks I am a heathen for not drawing the stops.

[rgcn]

I would like to bump this.  Code requirements stipulate a minimum clear width at doors we must adhere to when designing for accessibility.  I need to be able to show a clear dimension on critical door widths between the frame stops and door leaf.  Being able to customize this frame dimension in the door tool would help match any manufacturer's shop drawings to make sure we meet the code requirements.

 

Rob

 

[rgcn]

@Christiaan Did you make a formal request for this with Vectorworks?

 

Rob

[Jim Smith]

In addition, as rated & commercial doors are metal extrusions this should be an option as well. We end up drawing these in details.

 

[JMR]

The door/window/stair tool entity needs updating - sorely!

 

They all need to represent the actual 3D construction, for obvious reasons.

 

Critical improvements to these tools have been asked for many, many years - I sincerely hope they are in the works also for the windows and doors. Please!

 

 

[Kevin McAllister]

My guess is that the whole tool is being rebuilt behind the scenes and that's why we have seen any of these incremental changes (likely a door tool that sections properly and incorporates the planar graphics implemented with symbols in VW2019). Alas, without JimW there aren't any hints on the forums any more.... 😕

 

Kevin

 

 

[fabrica]

40 minutes ago, Kevin McAllister said:

My guess is that the whole tool is being rebuilt behind the scenes and that's why we have seen any of these incremental changes (likely a door tool that sections properly and incorporates the planar graphics implemented with symbols in VW2019). Alas, without JimW there aren't any hints on the forums any more.... 😕

 

Kevin

 

 

 

I like your optimism!!   BUT.... it would appear that the window/door/stair tool is sub-contracted out and not made by vectorworks - users have been complaining for years about these tools but unless the suppliers update their tools nothing happens.... 

 

 

 

 

[_c_]

This is so basic, we have been asking for this for at least a decade.

Please. Stop. Ignoring. Our. Needs.

[VictorWax]

use a custom symbol for your doors with the stops shown in 2d plan. - you scarcely need to show the stops in 3d, perhaps for 3d iso details, if so use hybrid custom symbol.

 

a failing is that doors are by default shown in the centre-lines of walls : internal doors don't work like that, otherwise they'd rip their hinges out.

 

it illustrates the disconnect between cad technicians and experienced architects which will only increase, as people who are required to grow their cad skills inexorably, inevitably know less about how things are actually made.

 

any how mr biggs, how the devil is stinky north london?

[Christiaan]

Heya Dominic! North London is just great thanks. Where are you hiding these days?

 

That's true, I hadn't thought about using a custom symbol, but it does create quite a bit of manual overhead for a simple thing like door stops. For instance you'd lose the ability to use wall width to dynamically define the depth of the jamb.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Christiaan

[_c_]

What a suggestion, no please? No symbols. It is a nightmare to maintain -the various widths, the various vertical positions, etc. etc.

I did try, I even had special symbols changing by layer scale, this far before the current implementation of "2D components".

The 3D can be as it is, we need this in 2D scale 1:50 or so.

 

Take the object of Archicad, that would do very well here.

 

Edited August 5, 2019 by _c_

[VictorWax]

obviously custom symbols have some use, otherwise VWX wouldn't allow that user customisation in the plug-in parameters.

 

but the wider point is do you want a model, or a fetishistic virtual reality ? Next we'll want screws, pellets, silicone sealants, lippings, dropdown acoustic seals, brush seals, intumescent seals etc. to be available parameters in the door tool - what excruciating prolixity!

 

Horses for courses - as the British might say, rather than vorsprung dorch tequnik, and simple clear 1:5 2d for in-house standard joinery details - subject to shop-drawing review.

 

Alternatively, download the BIM block from the manufacturer - but it is so frustrating that autodesk has cornered the market with its clumsy Revit monster

 

How is Malcolm?

[Christiaan]

3 minutes ago, VictorWax said:

but the wider point is do you want a model, or a fetishistic virtual reality ? Next we'll want screws, pellets, silicone sealants, lippings, dropdown acoustic seals, brush seals, intumescent seals etc. to be available parameters in the door tool - what excruciating prolixity!

Door stops are an important bit of spacial data. Don't take them into account and you may get your door clearances wrong. Putting them in the geometric model make is very easy to verify door clearances.

 

3 minutes ago, VictorWax said:

How is Malcolm?

He's good. He popped in the other week for first time in years. 

[Stephan Moenninghoff]

14 minutes ago, VictorWax said:

vorsprung dorch tequnik

 

I'll remember that! 🙂

[VictorWax]

in theory, if a door is a fire door with intumescent strip, and smoke seals, then only a stop at the top of the frame is necessary - would make part M access a tad simpler than the ubiquitous 25mm thick vertical stop.

 

I believe the Germans have a better way - rebate the door stile, rather than rebating the frame - a nice detail

[_c_]

13 minutes ago, Stephan Moenninghoff said:

 

I'll remember that! 🙂

 

Stephan...

[mbft]

Did frame stops ever happen ?

Cus I don't see em in 2020.