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Renderworks - is it worth the effort

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Hi

 

I have been using RW for quite a while now and I have watched all the recent videos on it but try as I might I can't get anything to look very realistic. I know I have work to put in on the texture shaders and also on the lighting but is it worth the effort, will I get a realistic render from RW or should I cut my losses and go and pick up Artlantis or put the effort into C4D?

 

thank you

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You should give that one more try..it is all about the settings...play along with the volumetric light, displacement mapps, and so on...

right now, the r15 engine is in vectorworks 2017, so there is definitly realistic renders possible.

buying c4d wouldn't help, cause it has the same render engine within.

artlantis...might be a solution, but honestly..have a look at this stuff:

 

Checkt out this rendering! Made with Vectorworks 2017.

 

What makes a render more realistiv is the dirt and the inaccuracy. Nothing in our wolrd is clean or "accurate" (more or less)

so to get a render to life is to make it dirty, like stuff on the floor, visible light, stains and so on.

Could you post an example...this might be helpful to give you hints on your current problem.

 

all the best and yeeeeeehaaaaaa :-)

   
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11 minutes ago, Rummelplatz said:

buying c4d wouldn't help, cause it has the same render engine within.

 

^^^^ I completely disagree with this statement. Just because Vw uses the C4D engine does not mean that we have full access to C4D's abilities. Far from it, we only have access to a small percentage of what Cinema4D can do. For example, textures in Cinema4D can have multiple layers, which can add the dirt and grime that you're describing: Vw cannot have more than one texture layer. 

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Thank you. You lighting set up would be very helpful as that and shaders are my downfall.

 

I agree that the best render engine in the world means nothing if you don't know how to use it and as I say my renders are 'passable' but nothing more. I did not know if it was worth putting the time into RW when I could use it elsewhere

 

thanks again

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As promised, here is a different scene that was set up to be a lighting example.  I have included an image of the end results of each steps with a description of each.  I have also included the Vectorworks file itself VW 2017 so you can poke around and look at the settings I used.  When looking at this, pay close attention to the render times.  These render times were based on a workstation laptop I'm using, so desktop results should overall be better.

 

Render: https://www.dropbox.com/s/1l12onl9846o0qi/Bedroom.png?dl=0

(Too large to paste in here)

Bedroom.zip

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3 hours ago, Rummelplatz said:

You should give that one more try..it is all about the settings...play along with the volumetric light, displacement mapps, and so on...

right now, the r15 engine is in vectorworks 2017, so there is definitly realistic renders possible.

buying c4d wouldn't help, cause it has the same render engine within.

artlantis...might be a solution, 

 

 

I fully agree.

Maybe not 100% photorealistic but you can do nice renderings in RW.

C4D has more options for the same render engine which also means it is more complicated to use

than simplified RW usage. So it can makes things better if you know what you do but not necessarily easier.

 

In that case Artlantis may be an option as it hides lot of the complexity behind automatisms and assistants.

I saw some people doing nice renderings with Artlantis although not having any technical clue what is

going on in rendering and its settings.

Edited by zoomer

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So it can makes things better if you know what you do but not necessarily easier.

 

Yes I completely agree.

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Drawings, 3d modeling, spreadsheets, renderings, all in the same software? I know it sounds too good but every aspect requires information, practice and a good coach. 

Here is a small practice project I did a few months ago. File available on demand.

 

Wes_Lamp.jpg

Edited by Luis M Ruiz
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In my personal opinion, I think renderings start by observing details and making a list of items that will make part of the overall scene.

A rendering can be very shallow or very intense and elaborated, plus on top of that if you are going for realistic like Stephan M said one time, you have to make things look old and used, scratches here and there, dust, a bit of dirt or coffee stains over a newspaper, that level of realism. Yes, details take time but so is a painting but must important, you have to enjoy the process.

 

Now, what makes a list of learning items when it comes to rendering? I'd say, everything start with knowing how to 3d model, we are not making flat illustration here, we'll be working with volumes. Then lights, very important aspect and light comes from different sources and different intensities, environmental, direct lights, points and custom sources. Shadows, another topic, blur vs straight cast, make a big difference. Textures and their characteristics, some are shiny, some are very dull, some emanate light and others need bump, noise, etc. and don't get me started on the mapping. Creating and selecting the right materials takes dedication, then again for an indoor shot, if we are collaborating with a professional interior designer then the selection is all up to them, all we do is match. Camera composition, just like a smart photographer selects the best angle, that helps to tell the story. And finally, the rendering style, lights settings, detail control, backgrounds and final size and of course having a fast computer helps.

 

I'd recommend checking out the training videos posted on our youtube channel (I so wish we had those when I started doing renderings).

 

As promised, here is the file, v2017

 

 

Wes_Lamp_render.vwx.zip

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A number of the tutorials mentioned below, most of these are playlists of a series of videos:
 

 

 

 

 

 

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I have genuinely watched all the recordings more than once but heartened by the input I will give it another shot and post the results

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17 hours ago, Luis M Ruiz said:

 

As promised, here is the file, v2017

 

Wes_Lamp_render.vwx.zip

 

Thanks so much for sharing Luis.  Looks great.

 

Out of interest - how did you get the jpg out of Vectorworks?  I always struggle to find the best way (don't understand why you can't publish a viewport to JPG).  I render like you in a viewport as it seems the most sensible way to go.  Wish cameras worked better and had more options for output.


Thanks again

Andrew

Edited by Andrew Davies

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Since I am creating more and more images for use in Power Point presentations and also passing material to our graphics team, once the viewports are ready, I've been exporting directly to PDF. What is interesting is that more and more I make use of my Vectorworks cloud account and take advantage of my Nomad folder to let it take care of updating the file and creating the pdfs I need. That way I manage to get production going in two places at the same time. I invite you to give it a try.

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I don't believe that Edu users get the VW Cloud which is fair enough as we only pay a small fee for each license. That said we have 70+ licenses so it all adds up to quite a big amount. (I did try the cloud but it said I needed SS)

 

Furthermore if you gave students access to your cloud then isn't that a way of grabbing them for the future?

 

Just a thought

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7 hours ago, Alan Woodwell said:

@Andrew DaviesHi, to export as a Jpg go file export Export image file and use marquee to select the select the image format you want

Capture.JPG

Thanks Alan!

 

I've done that before and it feels very clunky to say the least!  Have  been hoping for a better way and was hoping I've been missing something. Would love to be able to set a camera and have that output a jpg or similar via batch publish. 

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1 hour ago, Luis M Ruiz said:

Since I am creating more and more images for use in Power Point presentations and also passing material to our graphics team, once the viewports are ready, I've been exporting directly to PDF. What is interesting is that more and more I make use of my Vectorworks cloud account and take advantage of my Nomad folder to let it take care of updating the file and creating the pdfs I need. That way I manage to get production going in two places at the same time. I invite you to give it a try.

Must admit - I've always ignored the cloud offer from VWX. I generally work alone 😢 So haven't had the need - but I'll check it out. 

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13 minutes ago, Andrew Davies said:

Must admit - I've always ignored the cloud offer from VWX. I generally work alone 😢 So haven't had the need - but I'll check it out. 

 

I've experimented a bit with mixed success. I think the biggest limitation is that it renders the viewports and exports a PDF but doesn't resave the file with the rendered viewports. If anything goes wrong during the cloud rendering or you discover a mistake in your file, it requires re-rendering everything not just the failed/corrected viewport. I like my files saved with current viewports whenever possible.

 

Kevin

 

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On 3/14/2017 at 11:06 AM, JoshP said:

As promised, here is a different scene that was set up to be a lighting example.  I have included an image of the end results of each steps with a description of each.  I have also included the Vectorworks file itself VW 2017 so you can poke around and look at the settings I used.  When looking at this, pay close attention to the render times.  These render times were based on a workstation laptop I'm using, so desktop results should overall be better.

 

Render: https://www.dropbox.com/s/1l12onl9846o0qi/Bedroom.png?dl=0

(Too large to paste in here)

Bedroom.zip

Very nicely done and just as concise as my favorite cooking recipes. Thanks also for the VW 2017 file to play with.

 

 

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On March 16, 2017 at 4:29 AM, Andrew Davies said:

 

Thanks so much for sharing Luis.  Looks great.

 

Out of interest - how did you get the jpg out of Vectorworks?  I always struggle to find the best way (don't understand why you can't publish a viewport to JPG).  I render like you in a viewport as it seems the most sensible way to go.  Wish cameras worked better and had more options for output.


Thanks again

Andrew

I can't recall who it was but someone gave the pointer of simply using control c to copy the viewport, then if on a Mac you can open preview and paste from clipboard.  Its insanely faster than any export method and seems to work for us here.  

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For me, currently the best way,

create RW cameras,

convert to viewports,

(You can re-edit any camera settings at any time later)

(cameras no more available for C4D Exchange that way, so maybe

exchange before cameras a conversion and copy these in C4D)

increase Sheet Layer's DPI more than needed to get sharper lines for faster OpenGL rendering mode,

Maximize viewports in view and create screen shots of these.

(I have an App for that, that lets me choose file format, saving path and some automated naming)

 

Or just select viewport, copy and paste to save out a standard BMB in full res, for manual JPEG conversion.

Or create full size viewports, each on their own sheet layers, to use Publish for output automation.

 

Yes, you have to keep your concentration level very high that way and there are far better solutions

to save renderings, outside of the VW universe. But at least I get my stuff (screen shots) out.

For real final high res renders, I am happy to have a C4D license and, since 2017, a working lossless

exchange to C4D.

Edited by zoomer

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