Vectorworks abandoning perpetual licences

[M5d]

@Tom W. would you be able to add a link to the page where the graphs are published? I don't think we have an equivalent page for the Australian market, but I have always wondered what the numbers are like here. 

 

[Tom W.]

@M5d these were screenshots from the UK design day video that someone else (helpfully) posted:

 

 

I was struck like @Christiaan at the growth in subscriptions - presumably it will be a similar picture in other markets...?

 

 

[Pat Stanford]

8 hours ago, line-weight said:

Even if it's true that an increase in revenue will be used to produce a better software, this may in effect mean that VW is moving towards a different market and is no longer interested in people like me - smaller operators who don't actually need (for example) stuff for large multiple-user projects etc.

 

Spotlight and Entertainment (at least in the US) is where VW has the highest market penetration and is the absolute market leader. And in the US almost all of the users are sole practitioners who work on a per project basis.  Bases on the improvements seen over the last few years in Spotlight, and the addition of Braceworks and ConnectCAD, which while valuable on their own are even more valuable for use with Spotlight, I don't see any indication that VW is giving up on the smaller users.

 

In architecture in the US (this data is probably a couple of years old), there are almost 70,000 architectural firms.  75% have less than 10 employees, 60% had less than 5 employees, and 25% are sole practitioners.  The average size across the industry is 12 employees. Based on those numbers, I don't see VW giving up on the smaller size firms. Maybe not focusing exclusively on sole practitioners, but the market is the smaller firms. Who are also easier to sell into with less competition than the bigger firms.

 

My $0.02.

[zoomer]

3 minutes ago, Pat Stanford said:

In architecture in the US (this data is probably a couple of years old), there are almost 70,000 architectural firms.  75% have less than 10 employees, ....

 

 

Here in Europe,

it looks like the majority in Architecture may also have 5-20 people.

 

But it feels like all companies above about 40 employees will

just use Windows and products from the marked leading company

any way, no matter to which conditions ....

Maybe some also use software like Microstation when forced to by

their clients.

Like a status symbol, must have, conservative and trust proof, ....

I think unreachable for VW or even Nemetschek in total (?)

[line-weight]

6 hours ago, Tom W. said:

@M5d these were screenshots from the UK design day video that someone else (helpfully) posted:

 

 

I was struck like @Christiaan at the growth in subscriptions - presumably it will be a similar picture in other markets...?

 

 

Note that hardly any of them are annual subscriptions.

 

Also, how big are the numbers in absolute terms? Maximum of 900 monthly subscriptions in Aug 22.

 

The number of active VW licences in the UK seems a closely guarded secret - a figure of about 650,000 globally is often mentioned, and I've seen one suggestion that 10% of those are UK (no idea if that's accurate). That would suggest a backdrop of 65,000 UK users, when looking at those subscription numbers.

[unearthed]

So as an illustration of how awful subscription software is I 'upgraded' recently to sketchup (as it seemed to have improved). But after three different ways of it not allowing me to logon I have deleted the sub. version and gone back to what I bought in 2012 - It still does most of what I want and is a joy to use.

 

Subscription models are just Capitalist rent-seeking and I've had enough of slumlords.

 

[M5d]

On 10/14/2022 at 10:16 PM, Tom W. said:

I was struck like @Christiaan at the growth in subscriptions - presumably it will be a similar picture in other markets...?

 

Thanks @Tom W. I wasn’t aware subscriptions had been available for a couple years already. The snapshots were interesting, I have no idea what the VW numbers or market share are like here (au). Perhaps as @line-weight suggests, these are closely guarded secrets.

 

Edited October 16, 2022 by M5d

[Jeff Prince]

3 hours ago, M5d said:

I have no idea what the VW numbers or market share are like here (au).

A pretty good way to determine this is to look at the job market or education offerings in different areas.  People with Vectorworks experience are rarely sought, classes are hard to come by at actual schools.  Jobs requiring Revit or AutoCAD are common within multiple tiers of experience and title.  I’ve never seen a job listing asking for Vectorworks experience outside of this website.  Perhaps it’s more common in entertainment, but I’de say it’s comparatively rare in AEC in my experience.

[Christiaan]

I see them on LinkedIN.

[Tom W.]

Are there any surveys showing which software architects in the UK are using + whether they are working in 2D or 3D?

[Christiaan]

This is from the 2020 NBS National BIM Report, although it's in the context on BIM.

 

[line-weight]

I'm not sure those BIM surveys are really much use for anything other than tracking trends over time. As far as I can see, their sample is not a random one nor do they do anything to try and correct for biases in who responds to it. I doubt it can be extrapolated in any useful way to work out how many architects use Vectorworks.

[MaWi]

14 hours ago, jeff prince said:

A pretty good way to determine this is to look at the job market or education offerings in different areas.  People with Vectorworks experience are rarely sought, classes are hard to come by at actual schools.  Jobs requiring Revit or AutoCAD are common within multiple tiers of experience and title.  I’ve never seen a job listing asking for Vectorworks experience outside of this website.  Perhaps it’s more common in entertainment, but I’de say it’s comparatively rare in AEC in my experience.

In Switzerland, you will hardly find any architecture firms that use Revit. About 40% work with Vectorworks and Archicad. The remaining 20% are distributed among various BIM tools (incl. Revit). 

[Christiaan]

Hmm, I've often wondered about moving to Switzerland! 😃

[bcd]

I've heard it has it's ups & downs

[Jeff Prince]

9 hours ago, MaWi said:

In Switzerland, you will hardly find any architecture firms that use Revit. About 40% work with Vectorworks and Archicad. The remaining 20% are distributed among various BIM tools (incl. Revit). 

 

That's notable there is such a concentration in your country, I wonder what the contributing factors are.

I guess another way to judge market penetration is to compare each of the big software vendor's global revenues in a particular market segment.  Autodesk vs Vectorworks in AEC is one area that might raise a few eyebrows and explain the apparent 100:1 user ratio.

 

Here's some interesting reading, though I can not vouch for its veracity...

 

https://bigdataconstruction.com/lobbyist-wars-and-the-development-of-bim-part-2-open-bim-vs-closed-bim-revit-vs-archicad-and-europe-vs-the-rest-of-the-world/

[zoomer]

Great Link.

[MaWi]

From my point of view (I am an architect) Revit is unsuitable for education at universities in Europe. The demands on our plan graphics here cannot be met with Revit. And why run to InDesign or Photoshop for every single transparency, when Vectorworks covers the most important functions.

 

I can't do anything with the link, except classify it under paid advertising.

[MaWi]

15 hours ago, Christiaan said:

Hmm, I've often wondered about moving to Switzerland!

Oh, it's not always so nice here, only 362 days a year :-)

[MaWi]

14 hours ago, bcd said:

I've heard it has it's ups & downs

Yes, we are still working on the 100% Vectorworks coverage. And our ambition definitely got stronger again with Vectorworks 2023!

[zoomer]

3 hours ago, MaWi said:

The demands on our plan graphics here cannot be met with Revit. And why run to InDesign or Photoshop for every single transparency, when Vectorworks covers the most important functions.

 

My Revit clients don't use plan graphic demands 🙂

 

Although they would have access to this :

https://architect-entrepreneur.teachable.com/p/30x40-design-workshop-revit-template-complete

[Jeff Prince]

3 hours ago, MaWi said:

I can't do anything with the link, except classify it under paid advertising.

 

 

23 hours ago, MaWi said:

In Switzerland, you will hardly find any architecture firms that use Revit. About 40% work with Vectorworks and Archicad. The remaining 20% are distributed among various BIM tools (incl. Revit). 

It would be interesting to know where you got your numbers.  Are you guessing based on biased observation or is there more to it?

 

I just renewed my vectorworks license and paid the service select tax.  Unfortunately, I can’t shake the feeling that the company is losing value and market share, which might bite us all in the end.

[MaWi]

1 hour ago, jeff prince said:

It would be interesting to know where you got your numbers.  Are you guessing based on biased observation or is there more to it?

 

 

I am a VDC lecturer at two Swiss universities and head of BIM Consulting ComputerWorks Switzerland (ComputerWorks is the Swiss Vectorworks distributor).

ComputerWorks' BIM Consulting team is a leader in the application of digital technologies. We play a central role in the digital delivery of projects in the Swiss construction scene, currently my team manages over 20 large BIM projects implemented with Vectorworks. 

We know what we can do and we know that we can successfully implement any BIM project with Vectorworks. 

Anyone who chooses Vectorworks today has the most modern technologies and, in my view, the only all-in-one BIM solution.

[zoomer]

10 hours ago, MaWi said:

I can't do anything with the link, except classify it under paid advertising.

 

I see it different.

It seems to come from an individual, it is very biased, and

some things may be wrong.

But I still think it is very interesting.

(Meanwhile I read all 4 postulates and a bit around it)

Especially his latest, final Illustration in Thread V4, looking like a

Marionette or Blender Node Network, of all CAD App and BIM

history relationships from 80ie to current, looking similar to a

graph of the complex relationships of Linux Distribution development

give a great historical overview.

 

For me it was very new that it was even Autodesk that started

"open" BIM and IFC very early .... and other strangenesses ....

 

 

[Jeff Prince]

6 hours ago, MaWi said:

 

I am a VDC lecturer at two Swiss universities and head of BIM Consulting ComputerWorks Switzerland (ComputerWorks is the Swiss Vectorworks distributor).

ComputerWorks' BIM Consulting team is a leader in the application of digital technologies. We play a central role in the digital delivery of projects in the Swiss construction scene, currently my team manages over 20 large BIM projects implemented with Vectorworks. 

We know what we can do and we know that we can successfully implement any BIM project with Vectorworks. 

Anyone who chooses Vectorworks today has the most modern technologies and, in my view, the only all-in-one BIM solution.

So biased observation?