2021 - Teaser Tuesday: Collaboration Improvements Make Us Better Together

[Markvl]

55 minutes ago, Tom Klaber said:

GIVE ME STAIRS OR GIVE ME DEATH!!

 

 

THEN DEATH YOU SHALL HAVE.  (Add in your own evil laugh in the background)

[MaWi]

STAIRS AREN'T EVERYTHING IN LIFE 😃

 

[Tom Klaber]

In all seriousness - I love these teaser Tuesdays because I am a nerd.  But as nerdy as I am - Excel sheets was a slight letdown.  I was probably putting too much pressure on VW to brighten my day... but jeeze - who knew that this was going to cause such a hullabaloo.

 

While this forum is designed as a place to constructively criticize - and I have ranted way more than my fair share - I want to voice my support for the VW team.  It seems unfair in a post explaining a new feature to complain that this is not a different feature.  Be like me - and complain in the Wishlist.  I fear we are witnessing the end of Teaser Tuesdays...

 

 

 

[jmanganelli]

Does any vendor have a great stair tool?  
 

My experience with revit and aecosim and autocad  is that none of their stair tools are great for anything other than the most basic stairs. I don’t know about archicad personally. But I know that archicad users still complain about  the archicad stair tool a lot on their forums, even after it was revamped. 
 

I don’t see how vectorworks not being able to do something that none of its competitors have done should be viewed as a failure by vectorworks. 
 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2020 by jmanganelli

[Tom Klaber]

@jmanganelli 

That promo video for the archicad tool looked amazing.  Maybe in practice it is not all that it is cracked up to me.     I use the legacy stair too more often because it is less complicate and finicky.  I find the new stair tool nearly unusable.  We need to move to vissual editing because editing via spreadsheet is just terrible.  

 

 

Not sure how true to use this is - but the basic idea of control points is the direction the stairs need to go. 

 

[DBrown]

@Tom Klaber that's 21 version video, the stair in the new version of Archicad looks even better, I'm starting to learn Archicad...

[Tom Klaber]

Yeah I am sure that its not perfect:

 

But there are some cues to take. 

[Mark Aceto]

20 hours ago, DBrown said:

So no stacked walls, no roof improvements, no Twinmotion link, no gutters, no flashings, no MEP, no structural networks, no Rebar..... another year goes by....

 

In the screenshot I posted in this thread, development of stacked walls is in progress, so at least VW is listening to user feedback, and working on providing a solution in the near future. There seems to be a 0-2 year turnaround for Design Summit demos. Some of the VW21 teasers were presented at the 2018 summit.

 

There's a separate thread in the forum for TM integration. This one sounds complicated by Epic. Hoping for a VW21 SP3 announcement but that's also when Epic is releasing the overhauled UE5, so... Also, while the live link is available in other design apps, user feedback is that the implementation is terrible. In a nutshell, I suspect VW is chasing a moving target, and they want to get it right (not just check the box).

 

There's a great free third party gutter plugin on the Partner Products page.

 

In the meantime, hope that helps ease some of those pain points!

 

Edited September 3, 2020 by Mark Aceto

[DBrown]

17 minutes ago, Mark Aceto said:

 

In the screenshot I posted in this thread, development of stacked walls is in progress, so at least VW is listening to user feedback, and working on providing a solution in the near future. There seems to be a 0-2 year turnaround for Design Summit demos. Some of the VW21 teasers were presented at the 2018 summit.

 

There's a separate thread in the forum for TM integration. This one sounds complicated by Epic. Hoping for a 2021 SP3 announcement but that's also when Epic is releasing the overhauled UR5, so... Also, while the live link is available in other design apps, user feedback is that the implementation is terrible. In a nutshell, I suspect VW is chasing a moving target, and they want to get it right (not just check the box).

 

There's a great free third party gutter plugin on the Partner Products page.

 

In the meantime, hope that helps ease some of those pain points!

I've bought all the plug-ins form AF Design, the gutter tool works great, the custom beams too

[Mark Aceto]

21 hours ago, JuanP said:

future roadmap in general. We have been discussing this and will work towards sharing areas of our roadmap for you all to see later this year. 

 

@JuanP thank you.

 

Understanding what is in the pipeline (and when) will hopefully help make conversations here in the forum more productive vs the current lack of visibility triggering fear that another year will slip by...  Especially for us Mac users who have trust issues from losing badly at the game of Release Roulette.

 

Edited September 3, 2020 by Mark Aceto

[Mark Aceto]

They're listening!

 

___________________________________________________________________________________

 

Vectorworks Design Day

 

On October 6, join us and users from around the world for a special live stream event — Vectorworks Design Day!

 

Register now to secure your spot for the following:

•  Welcome Session with Vectorworks CEO, Dr. Biplab Sarkar.
•  Core Feature Updates with Vectorworks VP of Product Development, Steve Johnson.
•  Vectorworks Product Line Updates with Vectorworks Product Marketing Director, Rubina Siddiqui.
•  Exclusive on-demand presentations from Vectorworks users all over the world.
•  A live Q&A session after the last live presentation.

Don’t miss your opportunity to gain exclusive knowledge on this year’s innovations that provide you the simplicity to design the complex.

 

Can’t wait to see you there,

The Vectorworks Team

 

Edited September 3, 2020 by Mark Aceto

[Mark Aceto]

9 minutes ago, Mark Aceto said:

Vectorworks Design Day

 

On October 6, join us and users from around the world for a special live stream event — Vectorworks Design Day!

 

Register now to secure your spot for the following:

•  Welcome Session with Vectorworks CEO, Dr. Biplab Sarkar.
•  Core Feature Updates with Vectorworks VP of Product Development, Steve Johnson.
•  Vectorworks Product Line Updates with Vectorworks Product Marketing Director, Rubina Siddiqui.
•  Exclusive on-demand presentations from Vectorworks users all over the world.
•  A live Q&A session after the last live presentation.

Don’t miss your opportunity to gain exclusive knowledge on this year’s innovations that provide you the simplicity to design the complex.

 

Can’t wait to see you there,

The Vectorworks Team

 

 

BTW there's a field at the bottom to "Let us know what questions or topics you’d like to hear more about during this virtual event!"

 

Make sure you fill that out, so VW won't forget about the stair stool. Could be the first they're hearing of this 😉

 

But in all seriousness, this is a great opportunity to explicitly provide user feedback for all industries in a live Q&A.

 

Edited September 3, 2020 by Mark Aceto

[Jeff Prince]

7 hours ago, Samuel Derenboim said:

Regarding export to C4d and exporting alpha channels shouldn't be such a big deal. 

 

Opting out of the service select might be a financial savings for one year, but you will end up paying for it when VW solves the problems you're talking about, or creates new tools that circumvents some of those problems. The tag tool for me was one such example 2 releases ago, I don't know how i worked without it before that point. In either case, what you pay in service select for upgrading VW upon release for 2 years is probably less than what you would pay to upgrade after missing the 2 years (depending on when you have service select). Financially, it works out for the better I think.

 

Additionally, I don't think they (service select customer service) will solve alot of problems you have. They're not intended for that purpose i believe, but they certainly are useful to get some ideas on how to solve something. They're also not the size of autodesk. You're still getting updates (more than autodesk produces), and its 2 times if not 3 times less expensive for a single seat. You're getting almost everything you want out of the software. If you want to stay in the same family, maybe Archicad is better for your needs? Have you tried it?

 

You are right, that C4D export shouldn't be such a big deal, someone at Vectorworks could easily provide a specification on how they created their images and alpha channels used to create their plants (which survives exporting) so users such as myself could follow a formula to success.  Better yet would be if tech support would compare the problem files to their specification and advise on how to avoid the problem.  But, this low hanging fruit to garner customer loyalty goes unharvested.

 

On opting out of service select, etc...

The cost of software should be a relatively small investment when compared to the profit generated by using it.  The primary reason I initially invested in Service Select was to take advantage of the promoted "priority access to expert technical support" while onboarding from AutoCAD and moving into Landscape BIM.  This never worked out, issues went unresolved. Issues create downtime and that erodes profit.  This leads to the feelings I expressed earlier and is how companies lose potential and actual customers.  I suppose if I got the software for free, as some of the vocal supporters and usergroup leaders do, maybe I too would be less critical.  But when I shelled out over $3K of my own money for a tool and subscription that is failing to deliver on some of its most basic and promoted promises, these teaser tuesdays get under my skin.  Some days I feel like I'de rather put that money towards another mountain bike and draw by hand 🙂  Probably save many headaches.

 

I'll probably just give up on this fantasy of VWX Landscape BIM and use the software for what it's really good at... making nice looking plans.  It does 2D plans and 3D models well enough for presentation or exporting to an actual visualization pro for candification of eyes.  I can hire out the few projects per year I do which require BIM compliance AND have the work done in Revit for less than the cost of an annual Revit subscription.  This saves as many dollars as it does headaches, along with making more time for riding, so probably the best solution 🙂

 

 

[Jeff Prince]

4 hours ago, Mark Aceto said:

 

BTW there's a field at the bottom to "Let us know what questions or topics you’d like to hear more about during this virtual event!"

 

Make sure you fill that out, so VW won't forget about the stair stool. Could be the first they're hearing of this 😉

 

But in all seriousness, this is a great opportunity to explicitly provide user feedback for all industries in a live Q&A.

 

 

in case anyone needs backgrounds for the virtual meeting...

I find the Adobe one particularly entertaining considering the licensing fee for said image 🙂

 

[jmanganelli]

I have direct experience with Revit, AECOsim (now OpenBuildings), and Vectorworks.  Revit has major strengths and surprisingly serious weaknesses that are absolute productivity killers, OpenBuildings has major strengths and surprisingly serious weaknesses that are absolute productivity killers, and I'm sure that ArchiCAD does as well, as is indicated by their forum having long threads with titles like, 'archicad is dying' and 'things broken in archicad 23' and too many other threads to mention.  They are all impressive in one way or another but they are also all imperfect.  Vectorworks also has major strengths and some surprisingly serious weaknesses that are absolute productivity killers.  My observation is that people in the thread keep threatening to cut their service select membership or switch to another BIM authoring tool as a reaction to frustration with Vectorworks' development speed.  Why?  I think the frustration is better channeled into constructive, collegial criticism.  There is no demonstrably better BIM authoring tool at any price.  There are only a long set of trade-offs to be considered.  I guess the grass always seems greener on the other side of the fence.  My point is that if you work in the other tools, too, you will know that none of them stand out as head and shoulders better or worse than the others at this time.  Each is modestly better and worse in different ways.  As the song goes, 'if you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with..."  In the context of this thread, I think that 'the one you love' is a fictitious fantasy, and the ones you can be with all fall short of that fantasy...but that doesn't mean that they're without value or are poor tools...perhaps it just means that expectations have to be adjusted.

Edited September 4, 2020 by jmanganelli

[bpsabatier]

On 9/2/2020 at 3:42 PM, jmanganelli said:

 Do we all want to kick in the extra 40%-60% so that Vectorworks can greatly accelerate development?  

 

 

Call me a conspiracy theorist, but the cost of any program doesn't increase or decrease the development cycle.  Everyone has gone to the subscription service for a reason. They mete out small spoonfuls of improvements every year at a reasonable price carefully calculated to satisfy the main user base just enough to keep them coming back for more.  I know I'm one of those suckers.  I wouldn't be surprised if they have a brand new stair tool just waiting in the wings, ready to release when the user base really starts to actively revolt.

 

BTW, I don't always bash VW.  Cost is a great reason to stay with VW, but it is also a powerful program on par with the other main players.  It is a valuable part of my work process, and it produces great looking drawings for me.  

 

I just want more improvement in the day to day tools I use... stairs, doors/windows/walls/roofs/foundations... and I want things that should not be an afterthought... like gutters/ridgecaps/trim profiles/crown mldgs. and baseboards.  Oh, and a cabinet tool that doesn't suck.

 

Did I mention a new stair tool?

 

14 minutes ago, jmanganelli said:

There is no demonstrably better BIM authoring tool at any price.  There are only a long set of trade-offs to be considered. 

 

@jmanganelli , you are absolutely correct.  I took a chance with Chief Architect and experimented for about a year with it.  I loved parts of the program that gave me options VW just doesn't do (see wishes above).  But in the end, their 2d drawing capabilities fell way short of what I am used to with VW, and it killed my productivity.  We ended up having to export the elevations and plans to VW to finish up the drawings for publication.  

[Mark Aceto]

@jmanganelli my favorite is every September when Mac users on the .0 release of the new macOS threaten to move to Windows because they're having issues with the .0 release of the new VW.

 

+1 for constructive criticism.

[Mark Aceto]

In the spirit of community discussion, helping each other out, here are a couple solutions:

• Wall / Slab Styles used in concert with each other, especially combined with Stories, are extremely powerful (and their development shows significant improvement in recent years)
• VectorMEP
• Interior CAD for cabinets (prepare for the "class parade")

 

Edited September 4, 2020 by Mark Aceto

[jmanganelli]

@Mark Aceto Thanks for the references!

[Matt Overton]

On 9/4/2020 at 1:04 AM, Tom Klaber said:

@jmanganelli 

That promo video for the archicad tool looked amazing.  Maybe in practice it is not all that it is cracked up to me.     I use the legacy stair too more often because it is less complicate and finicky.  I find the new stair tool nearly unusable.  We need to move to vissual editing because editing via spreadsheet is just terrible.  

 

 

Not sure how true to use this is - but the basic idea of control points is the direction the stairs need to go. 

 

This video just goes to show Architects who only work in hand sketches never have clue how big stairs really are.

 

[DBrown]

19 hours ago, Mark Aceto said:

my favorite is every September when Mac users on the .0 release of the new macOS threaten to move to Windows because they're having issues with the .0 release of the new VW.

I'm glad you take the frustration of the Mac Users as a joke..

I've been using the VectorMEP plugins to try to circumvent the lack of tools in Vectorworks, the plugins work great, but, since they are done by just one guy, he does his best to keep up with the anual release of Vectorworks, and the tool don't have all the parts needed for bigger projects.

I still have to export the projects to Revit in IFC in order to create MEP drawings
 

 

19 hours ago, Mark Aceto said:

Wall / Slab Styles used in concert with each other, especially combined with Stories, are extremely powerful (and their development shows significant improvement in recent years)

I agree, the slab tool has gotten more powerful and efficient over the years, my question where is the love for the Wall Tool?

[Mark Aceto]

On 9/5/2020 at 4:04 AM, DBrown said:

I'm glad you take the frustration of the Mac Users as a joke..

 

Take it down a notch. I've been a Mac user since the 80's. I usually wait a year or more to upgrade macOS, so I'm a happy camper (and so are my colleagues and clients).

 

My point is that the day before a .0 release, macOS and VW are on .6 and SP5 of their most recent versions. All things being relative, the best, fastest, most stable versions are 1-day old... but the answer is to completely bail the entire platform, and move to Windows? That's a preferred alternative to using what worked perfectly fine yesterday? That logic doesn't make any sense, so it's an empty threat.

 

Edited September 14, 2020 by Mark Aceto

[bc]

 

 

deleted preview of VW.

Edited September 6, 2020 by bc
deleted link

[Tom Klaber]

On 9/5/2020 at 7:04 AM, DBrown said:

I'm glad you take the frustration of the Mac Users as a joke..

 

Grass is always greener!  I always felt like Windows is a second class citizen in the VW world.   

That said - after using Macs for 10 years in the office - I made the switch to Windows when I opened my own firm.  Do not regret it.  MacOS was better for a long time - but with Windows 10 that changed, so come on over the water is...refreshing...!

[zoomer]

5 hours ago, Tom Klaber said:

Grass is always greener! 

 

 

I thought that too before I tried to switch.

For 2 years now.

 

But I am very alleviated that I can now finally see a perspective

for 3D and CAD in Apples future with Apple SoCs.

 

Pity, you never had that much Software choice on Apple but

with VW and Cinema that was lots of fun the last decade.