Mac Studio & M1 Ultra

[line-weight]

I think I might already have posted this earlier in the thread, but I found this really useful when last trying to work out which monitor to get:

 

https://bjango.com/articles/macexternaldisplays/

 

In particular the chart that explains the bad zone where monitors running at their native resolution will not be comfortable to look at.

 

In my case, my maximum monitor size is determined by space limitations. I was looking for a 27" monitor, so I could either shell out for a 5K one, or go for a more affordable 2560x1440 one. Getting a 4K wouldn't have had any benefit. I went for the cost effective option in the end.

 

 

 

(edit: I see there's an update to that article now, here: https://bjango.com/articles/macexternaldisplays2/ )

Edited July 18, 2022 by line-weight

[bob cleaver]

I am using a Studio Mac with the Luna Display dongle on iMac 27" from 2011 as a second monitor - so far so good - resolution on the iMac is good enough to hold tools and such 

[jnr]

Mark:

So looked into reverting back to Big Sur on an M1 to get out of the dual screen problems with Monterey. Apparently you can't from what I found. You mentioned something about a future release hopefully addressing it? thoughts? 

-J

[Mark Aceto]

On 7/18/2022 at 2:28 AM, line-weight said:

I think I might already have posted this earlier in the thread, but I found this really useful when last trying to work out which monitor to get:

 

https://bjango.com/articles/macexternaldisplays/

 

In particular the chart that explains the bad zone where monitors running at their native resolution will not be comfortable to look at.

 

In my case, my maximum monitor size is determined by space limitations. I was looking for a 27" monitor, so I could either shell out for a 5K one, or go for a more affordable 2560x1440 one. Getting a 4K wouldn't have had any benefit. I went for the cost effective option in the end.

 

 

 

(edit: I see there's an update to that article now, here: https://bjango.com/articles/macexternaldisplays2/ )

 

Keep in mind that "Retina" is just 1/2 the native resolution, so if you're planning on getting a 4k monitor and running it at 2k, this is great.

[zoomer]

1 minute ago, Mark Aceto said:

so if you're planning on getting a 4k monitor and running it at 2k, this is great.

 

Just that you will get only the Palette and content space of basically a 24" Monitor,

when profiting from retina sharpness.

Or if you want to run it in standard 1.1 scale, you may want a 40" Monitor to not

experience too small text and icon size.

And everything in between is just a compromise.

Which may be ok for most users though.

[Mark Aceto]

On 7/18/2022 at 12:37 PM, jnr said:

Mark:

So looked into reverting back to Big Sur on an M1 to get out of the dual screen problems with Monterey. Apparently you can't from what I found. You mentioned something about a future release hopefully addressing it? thoughts? 

-J

 

Welcome to the Walled Garden! The only reason (literally) that I'm on Monterey is because the Studio ships with it. Really enjoying Mail crashing every 5 emails I send... I've noticed that Apple fix bugs like the dual screen thing in the final updates of each release (.5 and .6) so fingers crossed. They prioritize fixing bugs of the new sexy features first, and then eventually get around to the stability stuff before they start the vicious annual subscription cycle all over again with the next release.

 

As a workaround, you could replace the 2x 27" displays with 1x 43" display. For context, if you look at the res of the 40" display in my signature, it's probably pretty similar to both of your 27's, right? It's basically the same height as a 32" but 1.5x the width (both in inches and pixels). Btw I got mine through Dell small business sales for about $700 under list price (nowhere near what you'll find advertised online with a Google search).

[J. Miller]

Just an FYI

I updated to Monterey 12.5 and the screen freezing seems to be fixed.

No problems for 2 days now

Fingers crossed

Jeff

[Mark Aceto]

3 minutes ago, zoomer said:

 

Just that you will get only the Palette and content space of basically a 24" Monitor,

when profiting from retina sharpness.

Or if you want to run it in standard 1.1 scale, you may want a 40" Monitor to not

experience too small text and icon size.

And everything in between is just a compromise.

Which may be ok for most users though.

 

When 8k becomes standard, I'll care greatly about this study that Bjango did instead of rewriting iStat Menus Today View for ARM. In the meantime, it only says: get the LG Ultrafine or native Mac displays, and run them at exactly 1080, which is totally ridiculous.

 

The issue with palette text size of the OIP (and other palettes on the right side of the screen) is that VW refuse to increase the text size even 1 point to match the tool palettes. It's literally the smallest text size of any app that I use. I'm convinced there's an architect that uses an 11" MacBook Air involved in this decision-making process. I have begged and begged for this but gotten absolutely nowhere for such a simple request.

[Mark Aceto]

6 minutes ago, J. Miller said:

Just an FYI

I updated to Monterey 12.5 and the screen freezing seems to be fixed.

No problems for 2 days now

Fingers crossed

Jeff

 

With Twinmotion 2022.2, dual screens, or something else?

[J. Miller]

VW 2022 freezing has stopped

 

[Mark Aceto]

16 minutes ago, Mark Aceto said:

When 8k becomes standard, I'll care greatly about this study that Bjango did instead of rewriting iStat Menus Today View for ARM. In the meantime, it only says: get the LG Ultrafine or native Mac displays, and run them at exactly 1080, which is totally ridiculous.

 

A little more context for monitor shoppers, 4k displays start around 27" and go up to 43". However, 3840 x 2160 is only readable on a 42" or larger screen, so you have to scale 4k to whatever resolution works for your eyes. For example, on a 32" display that might be 1620 high; on a 27" display that might be 1440 high.

 

Same with the popular 21:9 ultra wides like I have. Absolutely no one is using this 40" display at the native 5k x 2k (unless they're wearing reading glasses, and holding their face 6" from the screen). The setting is my sig is where most people land. I mention this because when you see a 21:9 screen that's 1600 pixels high, guess what: only 1440 are readable (and "Retina" would be 800 lol).

 

Edited July 25, 2022 by Mark Aceto

[Mark Aceto]

9 minutes ago, J. Miller said:

VW 2022 freezing has stopped

 

On 1 screen or 2? And when you say "VW 2022 freezing", do you mean only VW freezes (Application Stopped Responding; Force Quit), or do you mean you were using VW when macOS froze (resulting in a reboot or login)?

[J. Miller]

I have reported in the thread way above that when using (2) monitors on the M1 ultra the main application screen would freeze (zero fps). unplugging and plunging the monitor woke the screen back up. Frustrating but no data loos. The latest update to the os (12.5) seems to have solved the problem

'

[Mark Aceto]

1 minute ago, J. Miller said:

I have reported in the thread way above that when using (2) monitors on the M1 ultra the main application screen would freeze (zero fps). unplugging and plunging the monitor woke the screen back up. Frustrating but no data loos. The latest update to the os (12.5) seems to have solved the problem

 

Nice!

 

@jnr you update to 12.5 yet?

[line-weight]

Hm, I am still on monterey 12.1.

 

I've put off upgrading so far because although I have some multiple-monitor problems they are liveable with and I didn't want to risk some new bug appearing instead.

 

Maybe now is the time to go for 12.5.

[JuanP]

2 hours ago, line-weight said:

Maybe now is the time to go for 12.5.

Please let us know. Since yesterday, I've been getting some customers reporting that 12.5 seems to have fixed the issue. However, it is too early to tell. 

 

 

[line-weight]

On 7/26/2022 at 1:02 PM, JuanP said:

Please let us know. Since yesterday, I've been getting some customers reporting that 12.5 seems to have fixed the issue. However, it is too early to tell. 

 

 

Well, so far it doesn't seem to have made anything worse or caused any problems that I'm aware of.

 

My issue is a second monitor that sometimes doesn't wake up along with the main one - I have to manually power it on and off to get it to come to life. This is still happening but I don't know if it's Monterey, the mac mini, or the monitor itself to blame.

[Mark Aceto]

On 7/28/2022 at 1:59 AM, line-weight said:

This is still happening but I don't know if it's Monterey, the mac mini, or the monitor itself to blame.

 

Apple.

[dtheory]

just to comment, I’ve been using an M1 mini, over a year, set up dual monitor for quite a while.. no issues of any kind..

[RonMan]

On 7/26/2022 at 7:02 AM, JuanP said:

Please let us know. Since yesterday, I've been getting some customers reporting that 12.5 seems to have fixed the issue. However, it is too early to tell. 

 

 

I no longer have an issue with returning to my Mac Studio and all the windows are on one screen. 12.5 fixed the problem.

[J. Miller]

Seems like 12.5, fixed a lot of stuff that should have never happened. Screen freezes on dual monitors has stopped too 

[Mark Aceto]

Following up with a couple months later update as I'm plating up my first drawing set on this machine... 

 

Anything on the design layers is fast AF. No remorse.

 

Rendering is everything I hoped for at this price point. No regret.

 

But then we get to the sheet layers... and for the sake of science, I'm happy to report that my CPU, GPU, RAM are nowhere near pegged (or leaking memory). HOWEVER, it's just as slow and painful a slog as it's ever been, especially when it comes to the worst offenders: sections and hidden line.

 

I want someone to tell me what Windows, Linux, whatever workstation will speed up these workflows. It's a trick question. They won't. This has to be some late 90's code that can't even take advantage of fast single core clock speed. BTW this Studio is only nominally faster than than any other M1 when it comes to single core. I'm sure the RAM / VRAM help but, like I said, none of the hardware is pegged. So, spending more money on a Mac (or any computer) to speed up working sheet layers hits a demising return somewhere around the middle. After that mid-tier threshold, investing in higher performance hardware will only speed up rendering.

 

I'm honestly (seriously, literally) at the point of hiring an assistant to plate up my drawings because that would be a better ROI than blowing it on hardware that won't move the needle.

[Mark Aceto]

Update on the monitor... 

 

Got the Dell UltraSharp 43 U4320Q 42.5" and... it's probably getting returned (unless it's a cable issue but I doubt it). I wish I had tested it for a few days before selling the Dell UltraSharp 40" curved monitor to a buddy that just started up his own studio. I stand by every other Dell and BenQ monitor I've owned but this thing is trash (although still better than the LG 43" I had for a week in 2018). Anyway, buyer beware.

 

Also, I'm addicted to curved monitors now, so that's great. Big flat screens look convex now... 

 

EDIT: holy smokes, everyone should check this setting on their monitors! Changing the response time from Fast (5ms) to Normal (8ms) eliminated the horrendous ghosting! It seems to be one of those software things like the infamous "soap opera effect" TV motion settings. I may keep this sucker after all... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 9, 2022 by Mark Aceto

[Mark Aceto]

Took the Studio out of the box just shy of 2 months ago on June 11. I was absolutely 100% expecting dust to be an issue with this design, so I've diligently dusted my desk surface every other week.

 

Today, as I was swapping out some cables with the new monitor, I tipped it on its side, and discovered this:

 

 

This is the first computer that I've had to vacuum, and it looks like I'll be setting a reminder to do it monthly!

 

Again, I'm not surprised by this idiotic design whatsoever. I even have an old Google search for trivets to help elevate it off the desk.

 

Lord Jony Ive of House InnerCaps may be long gone but Apple are still haunted by function following form.

 

[Mark Aceto]

Been onsite with the 2019 MBP (maxed out with latest GPU) for a week now, and I want to throw this thing at a wall. I got used to the Studio / M1 Ultra (working on the same file all day everyday for the past 2 months). Going back to what you used before is always the acid test, and this is excruciating. There's no contest. When it's moving, it's slow. When it's not moving, it's constant beach balls / Force Quits. I can't wait to get home, and get back on the Studio.