Mac Studio & M1 Ultra

[jnr]

My second monitor is the LG ultra fine 27" 4K. Very happy with it. As Zoomer notes, yes there's a difference with the studio display but it ain't much. For cad work and for that matter running renderings there's not enough of a difference to warrant the cost difference IMO. yeah you have to scale it. My problems with Vectorworks locking up appear to be exacerbated by the studio display. You can buy two of the LGs for around $300 more than one studio display. Looked at a Dell, Samsung and Benque. Dell has a new monitor out that is around the same price as the studio display.

[Mark Aceto]

On 7/13/2022 at 6:28 AM, Dick Jenkins said:

This has been a good topic.  I was so disappointed in 2017 when I dropped a load of cash on a pretty much fully loaded iMac Pro only to find it was hardly noticable better then what I had replaced it with.

 

Right there with ya. In 2017, I had the same feeling with a 10-core iMac Pro (and a 12-core cheesegrater 1080ti before that). For context, this Studio is the first Mac ever where I didn't get that sinking feeling of buyer's remorse. The only exception to that rule is when I turn on Show Shadows in the RW Background (that makes a 1-min render take 5 minutes) but we've known how "expensive" that setting is for awhile now. I haven't tested displacement mapping yet but I'm expecting a similar "cost".

 

For more context, this Studio cost 2k less than than iMac Pro, and about the same as a base model 2019 Mac Pro (without the wheels).

 

On 7/13/2022 at 6:28 AM, Dick Jenkins said:

Second, I have been wondering about the larger non-Apple monitors (43"). Are they as sharp as the retina screen Apples and have any of you been able to work using the highest display settings with or without an Apple monitor.

 

There are only 3 monitors with that "sharpness": the 2 overpriced Apple displays and the LG one. I've been much happier with BenQ and Dell 32", 40" and 43" monitors. All I want from Apple is a macOS "brain". OK, and the trackpad. Every other peripheral has better third party options.

[Mark Aceto]

On 7/13/2022 at 4:13 PM, Dick Jenkins said:

Under Navigation Graphics, I have never been able to use "Best Performance" without problems.  This is my current specs:

 

VW removes those options, and checks Accelerate graphics by default:

 

[Mark Aceto]

23 hours ago, jnr said:

That said am having issues with it locking up on dual monitors (apple display is highly suspect) with projects with large dwg imports. it smacks of integrated memory perhaps being a failure but would defer to zoomer on that.

 

Yes, M1 / Monterey are still categorically having issues with multiple monitors.

[Mark Aceto]

23 hours ago, J. Miller said:

I have the same lock up issue. It's more of a screen freeze for me. If i unplug the monitor and  plug it back in the freeze goes away. The render times are incredible though.

Jeff

 

When the screen freezes, if you wait, will it log you out, and then bring up the Login screen?

[Mark Aceto]

22 hours ago, Dick Jenkins said:

I have been intrigued by the talk on here of a 43" LG monitor, but I worry about the resolution not being sharp enough for detail drawing.

 

Get the latest Dell 43". The LG is trash (used it once while I was onsite, and returned it). I'm prob going to replace this 40" curved Dell with that 43" Dell because I miss the vertical real estate. Don't get hung up on "Dell"; they all use the same panels (LG, Dell, BenQ, etc.).

[Mark Aceto]

On 7/15/2022 at 12:10 PM, Dick Jenkins said:

Do you think I would be frustrated with a third party monitor in terms of eyestrain or other frustrations?

 

Eye strain is the #1 reason I stopped using Apple Cinemirror Displays. You can get the antiglare option now but it's a nightmare to deal with from what I hear.

 

BenQ are my favorite (easiest on the eyes), followed by Dell and LG (close second). Again, they're using all the same panels.

 

Edited July 16, 2022 by Mark Aceto

[Mark Aceto]

On 6/14/2022 at 6:20 PM, Mark Aceto said:

Next up: Twinmotion... 

 

OK, so this is my first bit of bad news. TM 2022.2 is an an absolute Crash Monster. I can repeat the crash every single time I start direct syncing TM with VW. After 30 minutes to an hour, the screen will freeze, then I'll be logged out, and brought back to the login screen.

 

At that point, if I continue, the crashes will continue to happen in rapid succession (a few minutes apart every time). However, if I restart, I can get back up to that 30-60 min lead time again before the next crash.

 

UE/TM have been very up front about not supporting M1 (and non-hardware accelerated GPU's), so this is mostly on them, and partly on Apple.

 

I filed a bug with VW, so the VW team is exploring this but after a lot of back and forth, it's become crystal clear that the common denominator is TM in this recipe.

[Mark Aceto]

Speaking of eye strain, I always recommend this:

 

https://justgetflux.com

 

These are the typical settings I've been using since 2013 but you can dial in whatever works best for your eyes / environment:

 

[Christiaan]

21 hours ago, jeff prince said:

 

I guess I am 🙂.

I can't stand looking at anything less than a Retina display now.

Maybe that's because my phone now has more pixels than most of the monitors I have used over my career.

I have a couple of old 20" Cinema Displays either side of my retina iMac and what I find is that I'm happy to use them for email, calendar, VW Resources palette etc. but I'll avoid using them for anything with graphics/drawings. Which is a shame because it's useful to have a drawing on another screen. But it's just horrible looking at drawings on one of these and then looking back at a drawing on the iMac. Mostly it's because they're a bit blurry but it's also because they not as bright.

[zoomer]

I heard that the Astropad Luna Display might be a way to do that.

 

I know about these options but never tried.

I just expected those to not be the same as a physical connection.

I would expect lags and inconsistencies like with Screen Sharing.

 

But maybe I am completely wrong.

 

Over a decade I avoided to buy an iMac because you have a dead screen when your

hardware gets outdated. Now finally Apple brings a Mac Midi (Mac Studio) and I rant

because not having a Monitor included 🙂

(Maybe because a while ago my 30" Cinema died and I have no more spare monitors)

Edited July 16, 2022 by zoomer

[zoomer]

Fact for me was,

with my too small 24" Dell for 350 € (just meant as a help to install my PC),

even at a unfavorable uneven scaling, it looked so much better than my

1:1 Wacom Cintiq - that I preferred to work with my old 1:1 30" Cinema

beside my 1:1 Cintiq for the other machine instead.

 

Because both looked same coarse and outdated 🙂

[Jeff Prince]

With all of this talk about monitors, I wonder if anyone could recommend one that would work with a 2015 MBP and a Mac Studio should I decide to order one.  Apple said their Studio Display will not work with my laptop.  I'm clueless about the requirements and got blank stares when I went to a few stores.

I believe my MBP uses Thunderbolt 2/minidisplay port or the HDMI port.  I found this one that has some neat features, but have no idea if it would work nicely or not.

 

https://www.officedepot.com/a/products/9743929/LG-UltraFine-315-4K-UHD-LED/

 

[zoomer]

AFAIK a friend has this.

At least it was about a 32" 4K display.

 

And it did strain his Macbook Pro too much (I think also a 2015)

But wanted to use 2 Monitors. The 32" 4k and an old Mac 27" Display Port.

 

The problem was with uneven scaling, needed for that Monitor size,

macOS effectively rendered 2 times the solution to finally scale it down.

Something like 6k or so which was too much for the MBP and

its GPU.

 

He finally therefore bought a M1 Mini.

Later a 16" M1 Max MBP.

(And is happy with it)

 

 

I would test that before. Not 100%sure if it may work with only the 4K Monitor

 

[Mark Aceto]

20 minutes ago, jeff prince said:

With all of this talk about monitors, I wonder if anyone could recommend one that would work with a 2015 MBP and a Mac Studio should I decide to order one.  Apple said their Studio Display will not work with my laptop.  I'm clueless about the requirements and got blank stares when I went to a few stores.

I believe my MBP uses Thunderbolt 2/minidisplay port or the HDMI port.  I found this one that has some neat features, but have no idea if it would work nicely or not.

 

https://www.officedepot.com/a/products/9743929/LG-UltraFine-315-4K-UHD-LED/

 

 

Assuming it's a 15" with a discreet GPU, it should work great with a 60Hz MDP to DP cable. I had many similar setups with my 2014 MBP (on the desk next to me). It's HDMI that will limit you to 30Hz on that display.

 

This is also a handy reference to answer these types of questions (with all Macs):

 

https://mactracker.ca

 

[Mark Aceto]

4 minutes ago, zoomer said:

The problem was with uneven scaling, needed for that Monitor size,

macOS effectively rendered 2 times the solution to finally scale it down.

Something like 6k or so which was too much for the MBP and

its GPU.

 

He finally therefore bought a M1 Mini.

 

I honestly can't stop laughing at this. I keep reading over and over again about how important Retina scaling is from people who chose a 1st gen product with 8-16gb combined RAM / VRAM for the their business (meanwhile there were plenty of Intel Macs available with sufficient RAM / VRAM). This is Mac fanboyism at its finest.

[zoomer]

As I said,

not so sharp uneven scaling on a 4k Monitor,

feels still much better than an older  1:1 scale Monitor like my Wacom or Cinema Display.

 

I also saw that OS upscaling in my System Information.

But had no GPU Problem with my Specs and a uneven 4k single Monitor.

 

I gave it up because some/many of my Apps are not HiDPI ready.

They have their GUI sizes mixed up. Some UI parts are scaled others not and it

looks horrible and ineligible.

I would like 175% scaling on my 24" for text size and palette estate, but Apps

would only work with 100% (much too small) or 200% (too less real estate),

some maybe at least with 150% (too small).

 

On Linux I could even not start my Bricscad because the content scales but the

the welcome Window itself did not - so I had no chance to reach the open file

button 🙂

 

But my friend cdid not manage to run both monitors on his older MBP 15".

It would have worked with the 32" 4k at native resolution but he said he can't

read it anymore.

[Jeff Prince]

@Mark Aceto& @zoomerSorry I wasn't specific enough.  My MBP is the 15" w/ Radeon 2GB graphics.

So the native resolution is 2880 x 1800.

 

I really don't know enough about all of this to specify a monitor anymore.  Seems every monitor I look at does not share the same proportions as the native resolution.  Does this matter in terms of display quality and performance?

[zoomer]

14 minutes ago, jeff prince said:

Seems every monitor I look at does not share the same proportions as the native resolution.  Does this matter in terms of display quality and performance?

 

I don't think so.

But I am not aware how VW acts and feels on two screens.

 

 

15 minutes ago, jeff prince said:

I really don't know enough about all of this to specify a monitor anymore.

 

I think I am the wrong person here.

Had 2 "Formac" 20" TFT Monitors in the past for some years but never spread

any App over 2 Screens.

And since my 30" Cinema Display at its time, I always preferred a single large

Monitor over multiple small or different sized ones.

 

And I always read about the various problems from users using multiple monitors,

on this VW forum, which do not happen for single monitor users.

[jnr]

Mark:

 

Thank goodness you convinced me to sell my old iMac Pro instead of trading it in for the M1 Ultra. And even better, that I procrastinated selling it. I had a deadline this week where I had to have Twinmotion, and if not for the iMac Pro, I would have been sunk. It's been surprising that there has not been more chatter on the TM boards about the incompatibility with M1. This blows. All that dough and speed, and you can't use it.

 

Additionally any thoughts on Monterey and dual monitors? Vectorworks locks up and no way around it other than to restart. I'm suspicious of the studio display as well.  For me always on data entry into the OIP.

 

-J

[Mark Aceto]

1 hour ago, jeff prince said:

@Mark Aceto& @zoomerSorry I wasn't specific enough.  My MBP is the 15" w/ Radeon 2GB graphics.

So the native resolution is 2880 x 1800.

 

I really don't know enough about all of this to specify a monitor anymore.  Seems every monitor I look at does not share the same proportions as the native resolution.  Does this matter in terms of display quality and performance?

 

Native res of the internal display doesn't really factor in the external display.

 

Here's the last cable I bought on Amazon that worked fine for that connection:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XSYZNMT/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Mark Aceto]

1 hour ago, jnr said:

Mark:

 

Thank goodness you convinced me to sell my old iMac Pro instead of trading it in for the M1 Ultra. And even better, that I procrastinated selling it. I had a deadline this week where I had to have Twinmotion, and if not for the iMac Pro, I would have been sunk. It's been surprising that there has not been more chatter on the TM boards about the incompatibility with M1. This blows. All that dough and speed, and you can't use it.

 

Additionally any thoughts on Monterey and dual monitors? Vectorworks locks up and no way around it other than to restart. I'm suspicious of the studio display as well.  For me always on data entry into the OIP.

 

-J

 

Glad that worked out!

 

In the short term, it's hard to recommend Mac (especially M series) if TM is an essential part of your workflow. In the long term, who knows? The deciding factor for me was that TM is lacking too many features for events / entertainment visualization, so RW is more important to me.

 

I only play with TM when there are new features to test, and they quietly added importing lights from 3D design software to 2022.2. Although they didn't mention VW by name, TM will import VW Spotlight Lighting Devices, so I gave it another test run, and it was a huge disappointment. They prioritize arch viz, Windows, NVIDIA, and SketchUp. That said, TM may be less crashy on M1 if you're not importing lights, direct syncing, or using an older version like 2022.1. There are other folks here in the forum that may be able to advise on workarounds and best practices for TM on M1.

 

I haven't really tested Unreal yet, so I can't comment but I do have higher hopes than with TM.

 

As for the dual monitors thing, what you're describing sounds exactly like what others are experiencing. I'm probably about to add a second monitor to this Studio, so I can't wait to deal with that... This is why I typically stay a full release (year) behind on macOS. I wouldn't be surprised if they fix that issue in 12.6.1, so hopefully that's right around the corner... 

[Mark Aceto]

BTW I've always been torn between a 32", 40" and 43" display, so I did a monitor study with a bunch of comparisons overlayed to eliminate the guesswork.

 

For context not shown in the study, the 40" monitor is the same width as a 43" and the same height as a 32" (both inches and pixels).

 

I'm personally leaning toward a Dell 43" plus the LG DualUp, which is basically like 3x LG DualUp's side by side.

 

 

And here's what a 40" display looks like split in half (a 60/40 split would be enough for most users that don't want to add a 2nd display for referencing stuff but I prefer to spread out the VW palettes as much as possible in my "cockpit"):

 

[Jeff Prince]

2 hours ago, zoomer said:

I don't think so.

But I am not aware how VW acts and feels on two screens.

 

I'm not really into dual monitors, I was thinking more of dual workstations 🙂

VWX 2021 has really been a grind on big site models and consuming tons of RAM, so I thought I might setup my MBP as a second workstation for Affinity Photo and other tasks.  I guess I should stop clogging up this thread with my unrelated questions now.  Thanks for the thoughts.

[Mark Aceto]

5 minutes ago, jeff prince said:

 

I'm not really into dual monitors, I was thinking more of dual workstations 🙂

VWX 2021 has really been a grind on big site models and consuming tons of RAM, so I thought I might setup my MBP as a second workstation for Affinity Photo and other tasks.  I guess I should stop clogging up this thread with my unrelated questions now.  Thanks for the thoughts.

 

Not clogging up at all. My very close second choice to the Studio (which I'm still second guessing) would be a MBP + a Windows workstation. There are only 2 things holding me back: total cost and KVM switching (Synergy is still a little janky even when connected by ethernet). And also which computer gets the big monitor? Go back to 2x 32" displays?