Thomas Wagensommerer Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 (edited) brown - purple - yellow - blue REALLY? Looking at screenshots from VW 2018 makes me extremely sad. Seemingly Vectorworks is the last application adhering to the kindergarten color scheme. A design application must not use colors in the interface! Look at any self respecting or professional design application and please get rid of those colors in the interface. Edited September 1, 2017 by Thomas Wagensommerer 3 Quote Link to comment
0 Vlad Batou Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 For example. The New interface of the program solidThinking (Evolve+Inspire+ other applications of the ALTAIR complex based on the Parasolid Engine) adds new users: Quote Link to comment
0 zoomer Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 (edited) That's where it gets handy in C4D. You can edit in 1 Tab or you can activate more than 1 Tab which contents will be automatically extended in your list view, while everything else stays hidden. I love Hierarchies. But I never use hierarchical display for Classes. Just because it is visually unreadable in VW. And, together with VW's limit to drag Rows not from the complete Row but from a special Field only (e.g. Layer Stacking Order) or expand/collapse Rows on the small arrow only, or switching visibility is so far away from Class Names without any horizontal guide lining that it is hard to switch the wanted Class, makes it unusable for me. Edited February 11, 2018 by zoomer Quote Link to comment
0 Kevin McAllister Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 3 hours ago, zoomer said: I love Hierarchies. But I never use hierarchical display for Classes. Just because it is visually unreadable in VW. ^ me too. The VW version is completely unreadable. And it gets worse when you duplicate a class, the navigation palette class list scrolls for no reason and the duplicate drops into a new level of hierarchy making it difficult to find. Things only display properly if you turn it off. KM Quote Link to comment
0 Andrew Davies Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Nice to see lots of activity on this threat - but how likely is there to be an update to the UI this year? Quote Link to comment
0 Chad Hamilton HAArchs Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Kevin McAllister said: ^ me too. The VW version is completely unreadable. And it gets worse when you duplicate a class, the navigation palette class list scrolls for no reason and the duplicate drops into a new level of hierarchy making it difficult to find. Things only display properly if you turn it off. KM Shows how different users' perceptions are - I always use class hierarchies because for me it's very difficult to find what I want in a long list - makes my eyes glaze over. Points up the benefits of a customizable interface. Quote Link to comment
0 Kevin McAllister Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 15 minutes ago, Chad Hamilton HAarchs said: Shows how different users' perceptions are - I always use class hierarchies because for me it's very difficult to find what I want in a long list - makes my eyes glaze over. Points up the benefits of a customizable interface. When I turn it on, I have to close all of the sub-hierarchies. It reads fine as things indent, its when they come back out again it gets confusing as to where you are. I would use it all the time if the design of the graphics was better so it read clearly and your eye didn't get lost. Kevin Quote Link to comment
0 Andrew Davies Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 I do enjoy reading this thread. Lots of good stuff in here. Here is hoping for a complete new UI in 2020 Quote Link to comment
0 Tom Klaber Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 Could not ask for a better version number release year for a milestone release. Quote Link to comment
0 Popular Post Jorge Ferreira Posted October 4, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted October 4, 2018 Great topic! I used vectorworks on college circa 2008. And I'm sad to see that the interface hasn't changed a bit in 10 years. I'm an archicad user now. But i've always had a soft spot for vectorworks. You can produce some nice graphics and presentation layouts with it. What surprises me the most is that all your marketing and "what's new" videos show a really eye candy UI. When I saw these I thought this was the new design, sadly while testing out the demo it was not. Why not use what you already conceptualized in those videos? I agree 100% with what has been said in here. UI as of now is really hard to read. Lot's of information. No graphics to show changes in parametric objects. And that's something archicad excels in. I would crave for the best of both worlds. Just my 2 cents :P 5 Quote Link to comment
0 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Popular Post PVA - Admin Posted October 23, 2018 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Popular Post Share Posted October 23, 2018 These may have been shared before, but I wanted to get some more current feedback. These videos include mockups of an improved Vectorworks UI by @Stephan Moenninghoff. Not only am I extremely grateful for the obvious time investment that went into these, I tend to agree very strongly with many of his functional improvement suggestions: Palette Behaviour.mp4 7 4 Quote Link to comment
0 mike m oz Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 I like the mock up generally. I prefer the colourful icons for resource types though rather than grey subdued. Quote Link to comment
0 Andy Broomell Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 The buttons at the bottom of his second video are exactly how the Resource Manager filters should work! I'd use that constantly. (Does Stephan work for VW? He should...) 2 Quote Link to comment
0 Andrew Davies Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Gosh - just looking at these videos, then VWX seems even older. Amazing work Stephen Quote Link to comment
0 Kevin McAllister Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jim Wilson said: These may have been shared before, but I wanted to get some more current feedback. These videos include mockups of an improved Vectorworks UI by @Stephan Moenninghoff. Not only am I extremely grateful for the obvious time investment that went into these, I tend to agree very strongly with many of his functional improvement suggestions This is fantastic! Bravo @Stephan Moenninghoff. As someone who has worked with a horizontal palette for years, I am grateful to see that given some consideration. I'm very appreciative of the amount of thought that has gone into these prototypes. Kevin My main tool palette looks like this. Unfortunately its un-dockable in the current implementation of palette docking since it needs to be a specific width to keep its organization. I think user organization is one thing that needs to be considered with palette resizing. I want to control my tool layout so tools appear in a consistent position within the palette. And I sure hope some of those proposed changes solve this 🙂 - Edited October 23, 2018 by Kevin McAllister Quote Link to comment
0 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Popular Post Stephan Moenninghoff Posted October 23, 2018 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Popular Post Share Posted October 23, 2018 Here is an excerpt from another proposal I made in 2016. This is about how the Quick Prefs and some other UI elements of the main drawing window might be improved. It already looks quite dated now which goes to show how quickly UI, icons, dialogs etc. start to look dated. In other words: it's not enough to do it once. Just like other features are improved and updated every few years, so should the UI. Not easy to do. 13 Quote Link to comment
0 Jorge Ferreira Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 3 hours ago, Jim Wilson said: These may have been shared before, but I wanted to get some more current feedback. These videos include mockups of an improved Vectorworks UI by @Stephan Moenninghoff. Not only am I extremely grateful for the obvious time investment that went into these, I tend to agree very strongly with many of his functional improvement suggestions: Palette Behaviour.mp4 Oh man!!! These looke abolutely amazing. Stephan should be hired ASAP Quote Link to comment
0 zoomer Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 (edited) 22 hours ago, Jim Wilson said: These may have been shared before, but I wanted to get some more current feedback. These videos include mockups of an improved Vectorworks UI by @Stephan Moenninghoff. I have only seen the 3rd Video so far. But there are 2 things I disagree. 1. I hate the current trend of diminishing (Linux) or even hidden Scrollbars a) I can't even see that there could be more to scroll, or not b) Scrollbars are always a good indicator to estimate of how much Text or other content will follow. (like how much time it will need to read or how fast I will Scroll or pull the Bar) 2. I am totally fine with "Shortcuts" being displayed on the right row end of Menu entries and I am totally fine with "Shortcuts" being displayed at the end the ToolTips, which only appear when you hover an Icon for a while anyway. Tool Tips : 1. Tool Name 2. Description what it does (3. If it is so complicated than even the the steps needed to use it properly, maybe only accessible when clicking a button to extend) 4. Shortcut Edited October 24, 2018 by zoomer Quote Link to comment
0 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Stephan Moenninghoff Posted October 29, 2018 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted October 29, 2018 On 10/24/2018 at 2:43 PM, zoomer said: I have only seen the 3rd Video so far. But there are 2 things I disagree. 1. I hate the current trend of diminishing (Linux) or even hidden Scrollbars I know what you mean @zoomer about those scroll bars. It can be irritating. Nevertheless, tool palettes are unlikely to have a large number of hidden buttons if they are standard out-of-the-box palettes. If they are made by yourself and you know what's hidden, that's also ok. So I would really love to see how this works in the wild. Interesting though what happens when people start to use horizontal tool palettes. Does every user know about the Shift key for horizontal scrolling? So, yes, there is some uncertainty there. But this is what user testing is all about. I firmly believe any radical departure from the status quo needs very thorough user testing. Quote Link to comment
0 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Stephan Moenninghoff Posted October 29, 2018 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted October 29, 2018 (edited) BTW a scalable UI is nothing too exotic. Blender has had this forever. Not surprisingly - as they use vector-based UI-elements. Pixel-alignment is not too great for non-multiples of whole pixels but it applies only if a low-res monitor is used. On Retina/5K monitors, the blurring is negligible. Blender.mp4 Edited October 29, 2018 by Stephan Moenninghoff Quote Link to comment
0 zoomer Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Meanwhile I saw the other videos about RM. I highly second that Multiple-Filter-Types at once, by separate Buttons. (In fact I asked for that since the release of RM) The missing or hidden Scrollbar would be a problem for me. If I search through VW Libraries and I will see an Array of 9 Thumbnails, accidentally nicely fitting into my current Content Window Area but no Scrollbar, I would think there are only 9 Objects in that Library and go on searching in other Libraries. Or start to scroll in any Content Windows or hovering everywhere any Scrollbar could appear from now on. 1. Another annoyance I find so often anywhere, especial in UI Edit Settings, are these Lists that pop out (like those from small Arrows in Quick Prefs) that will disappear immediately after you input your first change. You have to reopen each time and re-search. (or like the list to open UI Palettes) I wish there would be a standard Dialog list that stays, shows your changes in real time, and disappears only after you hit OK or Cancel button. 2. Or for things like Publish or Export Options saved by Name, When you open the Dialog and have a Named Saved Setting and change things, when you click to export, VW asks if it should Overwrite that Setting, Discard Setting Changes or Save Settings As a new Named Saved Setting. 3. An App completely locked up when a Settings Window like VW Prefs is open. Which prevents from all Scrolling in Views or Lists. In Modo or C4D you can go on working totally unrestricted in such cases, even if you have 10 of such Windows open that wait for your input. 4. "Preview" Buttons or even no Real Time Editing at all. I wish all would work in real time from such Windows. At their end there should be 2 Buttons OK and Abort. Quote Link to comment
0 zoomer Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 43 minutes ago, Stephan Moenninghoff said: BTW a scalable UI is nothing too exotic. Blender has had this forever Blender, C4D, Modo, ... Basically any Software that uses their own UI System. And e.g. in Modo (or Blender), each Pane can be anything or changed to show any kind of content. Like making one of your View Panes to a Dope Sheet, Timeline Editor or Real Time Preview and such. Quote Link to comment
0 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Stephan Moenninghoff Posted October 29, 2018 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted October 29, 2018 28 minutes ago, zoomer said: Meanwhile I saw the other videos about RM. I highly second that Multiple-Filter-Types at once, by separate Buttons. (In fact I asked for that since the release of RM) The missing or hidden Scrollbar would be a problem for me. If I search through VW Libraries and I will see an Array of 9 Thumbnails, accidentally nicely fitting into my current Content Window Area but no Scrollbar, I would think there are only 9 Objects in that Library and go on searching in other Libraries. Or start to scroll in any Content Windows or hovering everywhere any Scrollbar could appear from now on. Yes, and I was only proposing a substitute for scroll bars for tool palettes, not the RM. I don't think it's too critical though, just a detail. However - It goes to show how difficult it is to craft a UI for two platforms if you don't want to create your own UI. The treatment of scroll bars is quite different on Mac and Windows and needs some consideration. It can be done though and it can be done quite well. 28 minutes ago, zoomer said: 1. Another annoyance I find so often anywhere, especial in UI Edit Settings, are these Lists that pop out (like those from small Arrows in Quick Prefs) that will disappear immediately after you input your first change. You have to reopen each time and re-search. (or like the list to open UI Palettes) Agreed. That's why I am proposing a popover window instead of a menu. A popover is something that allows multiple choices and each choice is carried out or applied immediately. No confirmation necessary. Klick outside it and it goes away. As shown in the last prototype movie. Quote Link to comment
0 zoomer Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 21 minutes ago, Stephan Moenninghoff said: Klick outside it and it goes away. Yes, that's the better way. 23 minutes ago, Stephan Moenninghoff said: Yes, and I was only proposing a substitute for scroll bars for tool palettes, not the RM. I think I would miss my Scrollbars even then (or forget my last 5 Icons at the end of the list of Palettes I seldom use) But surly not as much as in a Content Window. Quote Link to comment
0 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Stephan Moenninghoff Posted October 29, 2018 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted October 29, 2018 1 minute ago, zoomer said: (or forget my last 5 Icons at the end of the list of Palettes I seldom use) That's what the gradients are for. But you may be right after all. I suspect it would be too much of a paradigm-change 🙂 2 Quote Link to comment
0 zoomer Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 OK, I watched the last Video now (Quick Settings) Much much better. Didn't realize the Gradients. And maybe it is only me who loves Scrollbars, while all others hate them ... Quote Link to comment
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Thomas Wagensommerer
brown - purple - yellow - blue REALLY?
Looking at screenshots from VW 2018 makes me extremely sad. Seemingly Vectorworks is the last application adhering to the kindergarten color scheme.
A design application must not use colors in the interface!
Look at any self respecting or professional design application and please get rid of those colors in the interface.
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Stephan Moenninghoff
I made another little video. There were some comments and suggestions about the OIP earlier in this thread which I thought about. (There's more to come. I have been thinking about why the Attributes P
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Here is an excerpt from another proposal I made in 2016. This is about how the Quick Prefs and some other UI elements of the main drawing window might be improved. It already looks quite dated now whi
PVA - Admin
These may have been shared before, but I wanted to get some more current feedback. These videos include mockups of an improved Vectorworks UI by @Stephan Moenninghoff. Not only am I extremely grateful
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