VincentCuclair Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Anyone know if it's possible to create elliptical/oval walls? Quote Link to comment
Jonathan Pickup Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 elliptical in plan or elevation? Quote Link to comment
Jonathan Pickup Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 (edited) in plan, you can set out curved walls so they look elliptical. Edited March 27, 2009 by archoncad Quote Link to comment
VincentCuclair Posted March 27, 2009 Author Share Posted March 27, 2009 Elliptical in plan.....curved walls work to a certain degree however as soon as you have to adjust the space there's quite a lot of moving and joining to do...preferably you would just want to adjust the ellipse axes.....it's strange i seem to remember boast and showing my collegues the it is possible in VW (in an earlier version) and not in ArchiCAD?! Is it possible to draw and elliptical polygon? I've tried but not succeeded, otherwise i could use the create walls from polygon command. Quote Link to comment
monotonx Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 hello, I work with VW for a week or so now. I use the German Vector Works 2009 student edition: I've createt an Elliptical wall with the "create wall" command, and now I have a Problem: Because the "generated" wall consists of several smaller wall-pieces - I'm unable to insert doors an other symbols correctly. Does anyone have an Idea how to "join" the wall-pieces to one large wall? here is a picture of the Situaton: http://www.vectorworksforum.de/download/file.php?id=629 Sorry for my bad english - I'm not a native speaker, but I hope you can help me solving the problem. greetings Markus Quote Link to comment
Jonathan Pickup Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 it is a lot easier to draw 4 curved walls that look like an ellipse. see my earlier post on setting out the walls. this way you have large curved walls and you can inset the walls accurately. Quote Link to comment
islandmon Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 It's possible with an ellipse and the Model>Convert Objects From Polyline Procedure... make sure you have the correct wall type selected prior to running it. Quote Link to comment
mike m oz Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Round walls can only be arcs so the 'wall' created from the Objects From Polyline command will consist of small arc segments of wall approximating the ellipse curve. If you need openings in the wall that can make it a little tricky. Quote Link to comment
Jonathan Pickup Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 I have posted a youtube video Quote Link to comment
michaelk Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Nice work around Jonathan. Not to get off topic, but is it even possible to draw an ellipse in VW without first drawing a 3D cone? michaelk Quote Link to comment
Jonathan Pickup Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 some of the old tech drawing knowledge is still needed, maybe I should make some more tech drawing movies... Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee Robert Anderson Posted August 28, 2009 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted August 28, 2009 The most scholarly and complete discussion of ovals, ellipses and comparable shapes that I've found is P.L. Rosin's discussion "On Serlio's Construction of Ovals" a brief summary of which can be found at: http://users.cs.cf.ac.uk/Paul.Rosin/serlio.html (A link to the more complete paper is at the bottom of the web page.) Vectorworks' Oval tool generates an ellipse construction. The best way to draw elliptical wall layouts would be to use Serlio's "Construction I" as shown in Rosin's paper. This is the dual-arc-radius method, and should yield the minimum number of tangents (which of course prevent object insertions.) HTH. Quote Link to comment
bcd Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Is the oval an ellipse then? Why not just call it ellipse? Quote Link to comment
Kool Aid Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Vectorworks' Oval tool generates an ellipse construction. Fabulous! Now, can we also snap to the foci of the ovoid ellipse and if not, why not? Quote Link to comment
michaelk Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 How do you know it's an ellipse? If I draw a true ellipse first then the oval tool seems to be able to replicate it using the second mode. But why are the foci not available? If I remember high school (and I probably don't) every ellipse is an oval, but not every oval is an ellipse. I'm assuming that the oval tool can draw non ellipse ovals. How would you know if you drew an ellipse? michaelk Quote Link to comment
Jonathan Pickup Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 The best way to draw elliptical wall layouts would be to use Serlio's "Construction I" as shown in Rosin's paper. This is the dual-arc-radius method, and should yield the minimum number of tangents (which of course prevent object insertions.) HTH. this is the method I showed in the youtube movie... Quote Link to comment
michaelk Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 There is a hidden way to create an ellipse in VW. There is a tool set that is not part of any default workspace, called the Solids Tool Set. It has an Ellipsoid Object Tool. The tool creates ellipsoids as parametric objects with settings for the x axis, y axis, and z axis. Once you have a 3D ellipsoid, it can be used as a guide to create a 2D ellipse. michaelk Quote Link to comment
Kevin McAllister Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 That's an excellent tip. There are a few tools there (oddly I remember using them at some point). I have been working my way through Jonathan's 3D book and there is no mention of them in there either. Once you draw the 3D ellipsoid, you can use the extract parametric curves tool to get the curve you need and convert it to 2D. KM Quote Link to comment
michaelk Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 The tool set must be a legacy from an earlier version. The 3D parametric object has some interesting properties compared to other solids: http://techboard.nemetschek.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=123872&Searchpage=1&Main=25835&Words=ellipsoid&Search=true#Post123872 michaelk Quote Link to comment
michaelk Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 http://users.cs.cf.ac.uk/Paul.Rosin/serlio.html (A link to the more complete paper is at the bottom of the web page.) Vectorworks' Oval tool generates an ellipse construction... Robert Thanks for the link, that was very helpful. Just so I understand: Every oval drawn w/ the oval tool is an ellipse? The distinction is that the axes of VW ovals share midpoints and therefore the oval is symmetric about both axes - therefore, it is an ellipse? And it is not possible to use the VW oval tool to draw an oval that is not symmetric about both axes? Therefore all VW ovals are ellipses? My poor little brain always thought of ellipses as defined by conic sections or defined by foci and ovals as cleverly combined segments of circles. This is all way off topic. I probably should have started another thread. To bring it back to the topic, it would be nice to see the Convert > Objects From Polyline...>Walls create a continuous wall rather than many round walls. michaelk Quote Link to comment
starling75 Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 I did small experiment importing ellipse object from one ACad clone (dwg format) and VW represents it like oval ... Quote Link to comment
Jonathan Pickup Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 the ellipsoid object is not in the standard workpspace, you have to add it yourself. you will find the tools in the SOLIDS category. Quote Link to comment
starling75 Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 And when I put center of an oval f.e. 5000/2000mm onto an (5000/2000/2000) ellipsoid center in top plan view it fits perfectly ... Quote Link to comment
Kool Aid Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 How perfectly? It was a few years ago, but the VW oval and a 2D-representation of a conic section were anything but a perfect fit. The discrepancy was significantly more pronounced when the sectioning angle became more acute. After I posted the proof (images) to the VW Mailing List, the esteemed Robert Anderson banned me from the list. Let's see what happens this time. Quote Link to comment
propstuff Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 How perfectly? It was a few years ago, but the VW oval and a 2D-representation of a conic section were anything but a perfect fit. The discrepancy was significantly more pronounced when the sectioning angle became more acute. Hi again Petri, After our conversation about the subject of ovals and ellipses some time ago...... I did a quick test with a very flat oval and measured the sum of the foci to oval points in a number of places. There was an error but it is small. About 0.05% of the expected size. Hope you're keeping warm there at the North Pole Quote Link to comment
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