# Elliptical walls?

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Anyone know if it's possible to create elliptical/oval walls?

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elliptical in plan or elevation?

in plan, you can set out curved walls so they look elliptical.

Elliptical in plan.....curved walls work to a certain degree however as soon as you have to adjust the space there's quite a lot of moving and joining to do...preferably you would just want to adjust the ellipse axes.....it's strange i seem to remember boast and showing my collegues the it is possible in VW (in an earlier version) and not in ArchiCAD?!

Is it possible to draw and elliptical polygon? I've tried but not succeeded, otherwise i could use the create walls from polygon command.

• 4 months later...

hello, I work with VW for a week or so now. I use the German Vector Works 2009 student edition:

I've createt an Elliptical wall with the "create wall" command, and now I have a Problem:

Because the "generated" wall consists of several smaller wall-pieces - I'm unable to insert doors an other symbols correctly.

Does anyone have an Idea how to "join" the wall-pieces to one large wall?

here is a picture of the Situaton:

Sorry for my bad english - I'm not a native speaker, but I hope you can help me solving the problem.

greetings

Markus

it is a lot easier to draw 4 curved walls that look like an ellipse. see my earlier post on setting out the walls. this way you have large curved walls and you can inset the walls accurately.

It's possible with an ellipse and the Model>Convert Objects From Polyline Procedure...

make sure you have the correct wall type selected prior to running it.

Round walls can only be arcs so the 'wall' created from the Objects From Polyline command will consist of small arc segments of wall approximating the ellipse curve. If you need openings in the wall that can make it a little tricky.

I have posted a youtube video

Nice work around Jonathan.

Not to get off topic, but is it even possible to draw an ellipse in VW without first drawing a 3D cone?

michaelk

some of the old tech drawing knowledge is still needed, maybe I should make some more tech drawing movies...

• Vectorworks, Inc Employee

The most scholarly and complete discussion of ovals, ellipses and comparable shapes that I've found is P.L. Rosin's discussion "On Serlio's Construction of Ovals" a brief summary of which can be found at:

(A link to the more complete paper is at the bottom of the web page.)

Vectorworks' Oval tool generates an ellipse construction. The best way to draw elliptical wall layouts would be to use Serlio's "Construction I" as shown in Rosin's paper. This is the dual-arc-radius method, and should yield the minimum number of tangents (which of course prevent object insertions.)

HTH.

Is the oval an ellipse then? Why not just call it ellipse?

Vectorworks' Oval tool generates an ellipse construction.

Fabulous! Now, can we also snap to the foci of the ovoid ellipse and if not, why not?

How do you know it's an ellipse?

If I draw a true ellipse first then the oval tool seems to be able to replicate it using the second mode.

But why are the foci not available?

If I remember high school (and I probably don't) every ellipse is an oval, but not every oval is an ellipse.

I'm assuming that the oval tool can draw non ellipse ovals. How would you know if you drew an ellipse?

michaelk

The best way to draw elliptical wall layouts would be to use Serlio's "Construction I" as shown in Rosin's paper. This is the dual-arc-radius method, and should yield the minimum number of tangents (which of course prevent object insertions.)

HTH.

this is the method I showed in the youtube movie...

There is a hidden way to create an ellipse in VW.

There is a tool set that is not part of any default workspace, called the Solids Tool Set. It has an Ellipsoid Object Tool.

The tool creates ellipsoids as parametric objects with settings for the x axis, y axis, and z axis.

Once you have a 3D ellipsoid, it can be used as a guide to create a 2D ellipse.

michaelk

That's an excellent tip. There are a few tools there (oddly I remember using them at some point). I have been working my way through Jonathan's 3D book and there is no mention of them in there either.

Once you draw the 3D ellipsoid, you can use the extract parametric curves tool to get the curve you need and convert it to 2D.

KM

The tool set must be a legacy from an earlier version.

The 3D parametric object has some interesting properties compared to other solids:

michaelk

(A link to the more complete paper is at the bottom of the web page.)

Vectorworks' Oval tool generates an ellipse construction...

Robert

Just so I understand: Every oval drawn w/ the oval tool is an ellipse?

The distinction is that the axes of VW ovals share midpoints and therefore the oval is symmetric about both axes - therefore, it is an ellipse?

And it is not possible to use the VW oval tool to draw an oval that is not symmetric about both axes? Therefore all VW ovals are ellipses?

My poor little brain always thought of ellipses as defined by conic sections or defined by foci and ovals as cleverly combined segments of circles.

This is all way off topic. I probably should have started another thread.

To bring it back to the topic, it would be nice to see the Convert > Objects From Polyline...>Walls create a continuous wall rather than many round walls.

michaelk

I did small experiment importing ellipse object from one ACad clone (dwg format) and VW represents it like oval ...

the ellipsoid object is not in the standard workpspace, you have to add it yourself. you will find the tools in the SOLIDS category.

And when I put center of an oval f.e. 5000/2000mm onto an (5000/2000/2000) ellipsoid center in top plan view it fits perfectly ...

How perfectly? It was a few years ago, but the VW oval and a 2D-representation of a conic section were anything but a perfect fit. The discrepancy was significantly more pronounced when the sectioning angle became more acute.

After I posted the proof (images) to the VW Mailing List, the esteemed Robert Anderson banned me from the list.

Let's see what happens this time.

How perfectly? It was a few years ago, but the VW oval and a 2D-representation of a conic section were anything but a perfect fit. The discrepancy was significantly more pronounced when the sectioning angle became more acute.

Hi again Petri,

After our conversation about the subject of ovals and ellipses some time ago......

I did a quick test with a very flat oval and measured the sum of the foci to oval points in a number of places.

There was an error but it is small. About 0.05% of the expected size.

Hope you're keeping warm there at the North Pole

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