AI BIM?

[John S. Hansen]

Check this: https://architechtures.com/

 

What will we answer to a customer who ask if Vectorworks gets this?

 

John

[BartHays]

8 hours ago, John S. Hansen said:

Check this: https://architechtures.com/

 

What will we answer to a customer who ask if Vectorworks gets this?

 

John

"Do you want half-baked computer algorithms to design a regurgitated design based on what everyone else has done or do you want to hire an architect?

[Jeff Prince]

My customers ask me about design, not the tools I use.

[Jonathan Pickup]

9 hours ago, John S. Hansen said:

Check this: https://architechtures.com/

 

What will we answer to a customer who ask if Vectorworks gets this?

 

John

Hi John,

I find these exciting and worrying.

 

I'm sure I've seen examples of generative design in Vectorworks, but you would have to learn this program to see what it really can do. I''m always skeptical of the presentations on these websites, they don't tell you how much work you have to do make this happen. 

 

[E|FA]

I really hope VW doesn't get sidetracked with AI.  Renderings (with disclaimers) is one thing, but generating design and construction documents is totally different.  VW is a tool aimed at professionals.  Please keep it that way.  

 

I'm sure the technology will get there, but for the time being it seems to me that AI architecture programs will be useful for VR/gaming/advertising but not for real world uses other than schematic design ideas, replacing flipping through design magazines or websites.  Based on stories of lawyers filing AI generated briefs with the AI inventing case citations, I wouldn't let AI anywhere near my construction documents.  I doubt my clients (or insurer) would accept "the AI told me to do it" as an excuse.

 

I'm a "design" architect, yet so little of my time is generating the actual design.  The bulk of my work is resolving problems and technical issues.  I don't want VW to use development resources chasing AI, while so many tools I need to use every day could use fixes and improvements.

[Jeff Prince]

6 hours ago, E|FA said:

 

I'm a "design" architect, yet so little of my time is generating the actual design.  The bulk of my work is resolving problems and technical issues.  I don't want VW to use development resources chasing AI, while so many tools I need to use every day could use fixes and improvements.

everything you offer is well said, but this last part is so important.  Most of us became designers for the love of design, our software shouldn’t try to take that tiny piece of the pie while construction critical parts of documentation are do woefully neglected.

Edited March 20 by Jeff Prince

[James Russell]

Sorry in advance for a deeper discussion than originally proposed but I think this is a really interesting and bold topic - and more over one that so many fields are encountering at the moment;

 

ChatGTP and other language based models are redefining the roles several fields;

Translators and Interpreters, Customer Support Representatives, Data Entry Clerks, Content Writers, Legal Assistants, Medical Transcriptionists, Journalists, Administrative Assistants, Researchers, Tutors and Educators 

 

Stable Diffusion, Dall-E, Midjourney, Adobe Firefly and other image based models are also redefining the roles of several fields too;

Graphic Designers, Photographers, Fashion Designers, Architects, Interior Designers, Storyboard Artists, Product Photographers, Cartoonists and Animators, Medical Illustrators, Marketing and Advertising Designers

 

^{...and what's even worse is I just used ChatGTP4.0 to make those lists ranked by statistical data as the top 10 anticipated replacements by AI type...}

 

 

I think we're going through a very broad, unknowingly drawn-out Industrial Revolution - a Cognitive Computing Revolution if you will, however I think it's also a matter of perspective.

Henry Ford's invention of the Assembly Line significantly affected manufacturing sector, or jump back to the 15th century and have a look at the Johannes Gutenberg printing press and the impact this had on literature, education and culture.

 

There's no putting the 'Genie back in the bottle' for any of this - the question is now that AI has passed Turing Test; when the AI can actually design something indistinguishable, or better than a Human / Designer / Architect / Biologist / Mathematician - what are we actually meant to do?

 

Now coming back to BIM instead of a deep Philosophy session...

 

I personally believe that AI is unlikely to take over roles the BIM Drafting sector specifically in the next five years.

 

I think that the nuance and attention to detail of specifically required for BIM Drafting, but also for the roles in which Vectorworks specifically is targeted, are something which both won't be a currently targeted sector, and/or the cost vs. benefit analysis for training AI specifically for that sector vs. the error corrections required in its infancy would be drastically outweighed.

 

I do think AI will be used as a presentation tool.

I do think AI will be used for inspiration.

I do think AI will be used for filling gaps in our tedious work (creating textures, creating rough surrounding buildings, extrapolating topographical data, material data sheets, fact checking, material analysis).

 

I, finally, believe that several governing bodies will establish a rebuttal before this affects job integrity in the BIM Drafting field (and extended higher design fields), setting a universal precedent - similar to the actions taken during the 2023 Writers Guild of America Strike.

 

 

... who knows in 6 Years though... 🤪

[Jeff Prince]

1 hour ago, James Russell said:

Henry Ford's invention of the Assembly Line significantly affected manufacturing sector

Did AI write that?

It’s factually incorrect.

[James Russell]

28 minutes ago, Jeff Prince said:

Did AI write that?

It’s factually incorrect.

Negative - I actually wrote it after visiting the Henry Ford museum in Nov '23, probably why it was still fresh in my mind as a great case example for workplace and sector innovation, with similar role replacement implications due to technology and mechanical advancement.

 

It could be considered factually incorrect in it's wording as technically the Ford motor company invented the Moving Assembly Line which was my intentional reference here if that's what you're implying...

 

Edit: Somewhat ironically this post additionally is a great point of a Reverse Turing Test where a human answer is believed to be AI - but again that's more of a philosophical discussion, perhaps better suited elsewhere!

Edited March 20 by James Russell

[Jeff Prince]

15 minutes ago, James Russell said:

It could be considered factually incorrect in it's wording as technically the Ford motor company invented the Moving Assembly Line which was my intentional reference here if that's what you're implying...

Ford’s skill was borrowing from other people and leveraging.  There are many examples of moving assemblies predating Ford.  Anyhow, the way your post was written and this Ford thing caught my eye as something written by AI, LOL.

[E|FA]

2 hours ago, James Russell said:

what's even worse is I just used ChatGTP4.0 to make those lists ranked by statistical data as the top 10 anticipated replacements by AI type...

Do you have any confidence the data is correct?  Would you bet your insurance coverage on it? The public’s health & safety?

 

2 hours ago, James Russell said:

do think AI will be used as a presentation tool.

I do think AI will be used for inspiration.

Agreed. Thanks for starting this conversation. 

[mjm]

20 hours ago, E|FA said:

I'm a "design" architect, yet so little of my time is generating the actual design.  The bulk of my work is resolving problems and technical issues.  I don't want VW to use development resources chasing AI, while so many tools I need to use every day could use fixes and improvements

This is exactly correct. I'd love to gain back the hours and hours spent resolving the above-mentioned problems and technical issues. I mean, I need to restart  VWX at least four times a day under normal load to lower the number times of app locking up, crashing or just plain refusing to render. When I don't:…just yesterday, double clicked on a VWX file during a zoom mtg, app opened fine, but as soon as the file started to load the machine crashed to a black screen followed by machine restart. That was a fun meeting moment…😬—some guffaws around the virtual table about my professional vertical market application. 

Minute it rebooted, file opened fine. 

[Christiaan]

17 hours ago, Jeff Prince said:

Most of us became designers for the love of design, our software shouldn’t try to take that tiny piece of the pie while construction critical parts of documentation are do woefully neglected.

There are aspects of design that are mundane though. And some architects are actually bad at those mundane parts because they're more interested in what a building looks like than how it actually works.

 

I don't know the best way for VW to respond to things like this, but, if they do, I'd like to see them target those mundane aspects of design and documentation while maintaining the designer's ability to be creative.

[E|FA]

If VW can use AI to automate workflows and the interface then that seems like a reasonable use of resources. If they try to use AI to generate details, etc then I think it’s a disservice to the user base and a potential problem.  

[mjm]

51 minutes ago, Christiaan said:

…I don't know the best way for VW to respond to things like this, but if they do, I'd like to see them target those mundane aspects of design and documentation while maintaining the designer's ability to be creative.

@Christiaan O yes O yes please

[Jeff Prince]

1 hour ago, Christiaan said:

There are aspects of design that are mundane though. And some architects are actually bad at those mundane parts because they're more interested in what a building looks like than how it actually works.

 

I don't know the best way for VW to respond to things like this, but, if they do, I'd like to see them target those mundane aspects of design and documentation while maintaining the designer's ability to be creative.

 

From a business perspective, the profit is found by being excellent at the “mundane”, as you put it, parts of design/problem solving.  When you are great at making things work prior to bidding, you save your clients and contractors time/money.  If you screw that critical part of the work up due to broken workflows and tools, nobody is going to celebrate your AI generated mood boards.

 

That’s why I wish Vectorworks would fix the broken before bringing us more eye candy.  Ideally, we would have it all, but I would prefer tools and enhancements like irrigation, ADA compliance, specification integration, better walls, etc.  It is frustrating to see these interface redesigns, AI rendering, color picker changes, etc…. These all coming at the expense of developing better profit making tools while incurring losses in efficiency due to retraining staff/having to become refamilar with the interface.  It’s terrible bouncing between 2022 and 2024 due to the interface & icons being so different.

[mjm]

1 minute ago, Jeff Prince said:

 

From a business perspective, the profit is found by being excellent at the “mundane”, as you put it, parts of design/problem solving.  When you are great at making things work prior to bidding, you save your clients and contractors time/money.  If you screw that critical part of the work up due to broken workflows and tools, nobody is going to celebrate your AI generated mood boards.

 

That’s why I wish Vectorworks would fix the broken before bringing us more eye candy.  Ideally, we would have it all, but I would prefer tools and enhancements like irrigation, ADA compliance, specification integration, better walls, etc.  It is frustrating to see these interface redesigns, AI rendering, color picker changes, etc…. These all coming at the expense of developing better profit making tools while incurring losses in efficiency due to retraining staff/having to become refamilar with the interface.  It’s terrible bouncing between 2022 and 2024 due to the interface & icons being so different.

@Jeff Prince Thanks for that analysis, opinion and wish. fully supported here.

[E|FA]

1 hour ago, Jeff Prince said:

 It is frustrating to see these interface redesigns, AI rendering, color picker changes, etc…. These all coming at the expense of developing better profit making tools while incurring losses in efficiency due to retraining staff/having to become refamilar with the interface.

100%

 

Unfortunately we're talking to ourselves.  

Edited March 20 by E|FA

[Flair-Studio]

On 3/19/2024 at 8:46 AM, John S. Hansen said:

Check this: https://architechtures.com/

 

What will we answer to a customer who ask if Vectorworks gets this?

 

John

Guys, has anyone seen the video on architectures.com? I think I am going to retire early.

[Jeff Prince]

7 hours ago, Christiaan said:

they're more interested in what a building looks like than how it actually works.

Sounds like the type of architect who will be displaced by AI first and the last it will serve.

[Matt Overton]

On 3/20/2024 at 7:38 AM, E|FA said:

I really hope VW doesn't get sidetracked with AI.  Renderings (with disclaimers) is one thing, but generating design and construction documents is totally different.  VW is a tool aimed at professionals.  Please keep it that way.  

 

I'm sure the technology will get there, but for the time being it seems to me that AI architecture programs will be useful for VR/gaming/advertising but not for real world uses other than schematic design ideas, replacing flipping through design magazines or websites.  Based on stories of lawyers filing AI generated briefs with the AI inventing case citations, I wouldn't let AI anywhere near my construction documents.  I doubt my clients (or insurer) would accept "the AI told me to do it" as an excuse.

 

I'm a "design" architect, yet so little of my time is generating the actual design.  The bulk of my work is resolving problems and technical issues.  I don't want VW to use development resources chasing AI, while so many tools I need to use every day could use fixes and improvements.

Yes surely the talent they might throw at AI could probably be more impactful targeting low hanging fruit of production killing issues.