Realistic 3D human figures for renderings

[MGuilfoile]

My company includes designers who use FormZ and 3D Studio Max. I don't recall where they downloaded the 3D humans they use, but they are complex meshes with even more complex texture maps. They are, however, very realistic. As with many such third-party products, these are not made native for Vectorworks. I can, however, open the native files in either 3DS or FormZ (which I also use) and export them as .obj files to VW. This format conserves the texture maps and even loads them into Vectorworks as textures. When I first did this, I was really happy because as I checked them in Shaded mode they all looked just as good as they did in 3DS or FormZ. When rendered in Vectorworks Styles (Realistic Interior Fast or Final) the textures appear shiny and/or missing. There is a smoothing angle option for import and I tried playing with this, but it didn't do anything. Does anyone have any thoughts on how to fix this or where I can find 3D humans that are just as good as these that work with VW? As a side note to VW staff: you really need to get on board with V-ray and other third-party apps like these mesh figures. I appreciate that you want to present VW as a "one-stop shop" for design needs, but that needs to be tempered with a little common sense. Thanks for any help in this.

MH Brown

[Jeff Prince]

Hey, that guy on the right is Brian, included in Vectorworks as a 2D image prop...

 

 

I use him and Alon (Elon Musk's long lost brother) for all my serious posts here on this forum.

 

 

Unfortunately, the Jay-Z model was not as easy to come by.

 

 

 

 

[Jeff Prince]

in all seriousness, here's a good source for 3D people that work in VWX.

 

 

 

[rDesign]

 

@MGuilfoile What is the difference you're trying to show between the top and bottom image? Are they using different rendering modes? Is the top RW and the bottom Shaded? It's not very clear.

 

Also what OS and Vw version are you using? If you're using Vw2023 SP4, have you tried exporting as USD from your other 3D software package? 

 

Yes, the texture mapping capabilities in Vw are lacking when compared to other products. It's been this way for quite some time now. If the mapping is not 100% correct in the original file, you aren't going to be able to correct it in Vw. Much better to fix everything before bringing it into Vw.

 

59 minutes ago, MGuilfoile said:

As a side note to VW staff: you really need to get on board with V-ray and other third-party apps like these mesh figures. I appreciate that you want to present VW as a "one-stop shop" for design needs, but that needs to be tempered with a little common sense.

 

Your side-note comment seems to be making contrary points: I don't see how Vw can both 'get on board with V-Ray' by providing high-quality mesh figures — also while using 'common sense' to not present themselves as a 'one-stop shop'. 

 

Personally, I'd prefer that Vw provide a small handful of high-quality mesh figures from third-parties that are properly textured for use in Vw in the first place.

Edited May 4, 2023 by rDesign

[Jeff Prince]

28 minutes ago, rDesign said:

Personally, I'd prefer that Vw provide a small handful of high-quality mesh figures from third-parties that are properly textured for use in Vw in the first place

Yes, and they could probably thin the current herd of people.  The 1980s looking 3D people look like the product of a failed ceramics studio.  The 2D line work people are generally not very well posed, like they were traced from a poorly framed photograph.   And then the description make it hard to find what you would be searching for…. Man in wheelchair?  Good luck.

 

Oh, and why are all the black folks in the casual collection sitting?  Would be helpful to have people tagged by ethnicity and age in addition to apparent gender to help diversify a scene quickly.

Edited May 4, 2023 by jeff prince

[MHBrown]

Sorry, the names of the files didn't show up. The one with the fewest arrows pointing to texture mapping failures was rendered in Shaded. The other was rendered as Realistic Interior (not Redshift). I'm using VW 2022 SP4.

MH Brown

[Jeff Prince]

If the entourage could weigh in on this topic...

 

Edited May 4, 2023 by jeff prince

[E|FA]

Definitely not "realistic" as requested by the original post, but I've used these figures for a more abstract look:  https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/lowpoly-people-waldo-9ec7a14729aa490fa712e51c217db0f5

[Kevin K]

@MGuilfoile, I assume you really, really want to use actual 3d people?...  as opposed to image props with a very high resolution?

Trouble with importing .OBJ objects into VW, is they mostly end up being a HUGE file. I still do this quite often downloading items from Turbosquid for my renderings.

I often use this site when I want really high quality 2d image prop people...they look great....but, alas, are still flat 2d objects...

One reason I like this site is because you can tick boxes that will get you people in any position, in any lighting conditions, etc.

 

https://www.vishopper.com/cut-out-people

 

I realize that doesn't really get you your 3d people 😞

 

 

[Jeff Prince]

@Kevin K I can’t believe the legend who models cheese plates with grapes and wine glasses with wine models in them would resort to such trickery 😉

People are tough to draw and model.

[Kevin K]

@jeff prince…what can I say…my credibility is slipping…it was inevitable:-)

[MHBrown]

The problems with image prop people:

1. They only look accurate in views that exactly match the angle from which the image prop photos were taken, usually eye level. This is mostly revealed by how the feet meet the floor. It is rarely realistic and often parts of feet are missing or hanging up in the air. In a bird's eye view it is even more apparent. They look like they are lying on the floor.

2. Although the image props automatically rotate to be perpendicular to the camera, the shadows they cast don't.

3. Not a problem, but with the power of today's computers, the size has not been a big problem for me. Scenes render just fine and quickly enough to merit the improved professionalism of my renderings.

4. Not a problem, but one must keep up with expectations in my industry.

Thanks to all!

MHBrown

[Kevin K]

@MHBrownI think I found a good source for realistic 3d people...

 

renderpeople.com

 

I downloaded a free sample and imported into VW as an .OBJ format.....looks pretty good...

I was surprised at the file size not being too big...will wonders never cease. 

 

Here is a screenshot.....low res or course...

 

and here is a 2022 version file...

 

Mei.vwx

 

 

 

[MGuilfoile]

Yes, thanks for the web site. They often look good in Shaded, but then look awful with Realistic renders. Have you tried to render these in one of the realistic modes?

 

I've found that tweaking the crease angle helps (around 130 degrees), but it mostly concerns how the figures were built. If they are a collection of meshes, then they don't render well. If the meshes are "stitched" together, they seem to behave better. This is still a lot of uncertainty in this, however. I was also hesitant at first to import objects from a modeling app (which only outputs meshes) into a CAD app like VW because of the expected slow down. That is 1990s thinking, I discovered, and I've put up to six such figures in a scene in Vectorworks and it renders just fine and fairly quickly. The C4D rendering engine gives extremely good results. So I am hooked. I'm never going back to the awkwardness of image prop humans. I just need to tease out a dozen or so figures that are standing, sitting, etc. to use.

Thanks again for the help on this!

MHBrown

[Kevin K]

@MHBrownI use the actual c4d app with Redshift, and this file in c4d was quite good..

 

I will check it out using something other than shaded...I normally defer to Custom RW, rather than Realistic most of the time.

Maybe some of the other pro's here can have a go at rendering Mei as well, in something other than Shaded? 

 

[Kevin K]

@MHBrownok, so I did a bit of testing pertaining to using a Rendering option other than Shaded.

 Check out the screenshot. interesting results!

 

 

 

 

 

[Jeff Prince]

@Kevin K

I imported via simple .obj to VWX.

When I rendered with Custom Renderworks, I don't get those artifacts you did in 2023, but did in 22 & 21 😞

 

I downloaded the .obj, Rhino, and Blender versions of the file.  I don't think there is a difference in the meshes or the textures for each.  Which makes sense... why would they build separate exporters for each program and convert to native geometry?  Too much work.  I did notice they provided a Vray version of the Rhino file so you can use it with that rendering engine.  I also noticed the textures used for Rhino, Blender, and .obj were all interchangeable without mapping issues.  It's like everything found its way out of their proprietary software via .obj.

 

Anyhow, the Blender, Rhino, and Vectorworks all look about the same to me, but I did notice an Easter egg in the attached .vwx version.  See if you can find it.

 

 

 

 

     

 

mia.vwx

Edited May 5, 2023 by jeff prince

[zoomer]

10 hours ago, jeff prince said:

but I did notice an Easter egg in the attached .vwx version.

 

The Rhino Logo ?

[Jeff Prince]

4 hours ago, zoomer said:

 

The Rhino Logo ?

Nicely done 🙂

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

Enclosed is a 3D figure that can articulate.  Everything including the eyes are separate, even the soles of the shoes.  Use as you wish. 

Articulating figure.vwx

 

Edited May 6, 2023 by VIRTUALENVIRONS

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

File enclosed of Articulating female.  Use you wish.

ARTICULATING FEMALE.vwx

ARTICULATING MAN.vwx

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

Enclosed is file of Articulating Child.  Use as you wish.

ARTICULATING CHILD.vwx

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

Articulating male file enclosed.  Use as you wish.  Needs eyebrows retextured.

 

ARTICULATING MAle.vwx

[MHBrown]

To VIRTUALENVIRONS, I'm looking for realistic human forms, but thank you for your post, regardless. 

 

Thanks to all for the tips. I've discovered that if I import the OBJ file with a smoothing angle of 130 degrees, simplify the mesh in VW at the default setting, and set the reflection of the map to "none," the result is generally very good when rendered in Realistic Interior Final (or fast). This is in VW2022 and I should upgrade to VW2023 to improve this process. After all, I assume I've already paid for it.

 

MHBrown

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

I

21 minutes ago, MHBrown said:

I'm looking for realistic human forms, but thank you for your post, regardless. 

Hi MHBrown.

Yes, I know they are not quite realistic, but they can be articulated or posed in any position.  The are very useful if you don't need to be close up.  Also, they are man, woman and child.  I have found this combination to be useful over the years with clients  

 

These are not new models.  I have been using them for twenty five years now.  

 

They are also animatable.  See short clip below

 

 

[MGuilfoile]

There are far more realistic animation human forms available using Twin Motion, so I'd prefer that route if I needed figure to be moving in a fly-through. Doing a scripted, choreographed video is beyond the scope of Vectorworks. I'd move to a totally different software for that. In fact, I'd probably hire someone to do that since it is way out of my scope, too! These figures simply look their age: twenty-five years. They would not be acceptable for any presentation of mine, animated or not. Thank you very much for your suggestions, however. It is great that everyone on this forum is so helpful and willing!