Apple macOS 14 Sonoma Compatibility - Feedback

[zeno]

On 11/24/2023 at 3:42 PM, StefanoT said:

With VW24 Update 1 and 1.1 on macOS Sonoma (latest) we’re experiencing incremental crashes not related to specific commands till it becomes very unstable (>2 crashes per hour).

 

Running “Repair” from the installer does not seem to solve the issue. Clean reinstall does solve it, at least for a while. This was a recurrent behavior on 2 different users/devices  (MacBookPro Intel and MacMini M2), starting from a few crashes and quickly in a few days becoming very unstable.

 

We have already shared this issue with our local distributor, and we got answered Sonoma is not officially supported yet, but we still believe - as VW addicted 😉 - it is worthy to share here. 

 

Hi Stefano

 

are you able to check the same steps on Ventura?

[Benson Shaw]

No posts in a while. Finally thinking of upgrade from MacOS Ventura to MacOS 14.3.1 Sonoma.

 

Are we fully compatible now for vwx2024?

 

Thanks

 

-B

 

[E|FA]

I'm running VW24 Architect Update 3.1 on M2 MacBook Air 24gb macOS 14.3.1 with no issues that I would associate with the system.  More memory would be nice, but not keeping dozens of Safari tabs active helped a lot.

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

I have a MacBook Pro M3 chip with Sonoma.  Running VW 2024.

 

We are not fully compatible.

 

There are memory handling issues.  Not the first time I have seen this and probably to be expected.  It could be a combination of Unified memory and how VW's handles it, or just Vectorworks.....or just Sonoma.  To be determined.

There may not be enough users running this combination yet for VW's to get enough info

 

 

[zoomer]

Looks like Blender has same problems with memory (leaks ?) on M3.

 

Maybe because of Apples new M3 dynamic memory.

But there are 2-3 Apple employees helping to make Blender fully

Apple ARM compatible and already some service requests

So Apple should be already aware of potential issues.

 

 

[rb-arch]

So, I take it there are no plans to make Vectorworks 2022 compatible with Sonoma?  Software is only 2 years old and no longer supported?

[Pat Stanford]

1. VW2022 is still completely compatible with everything that was available when it was shipped.

2. Blame Apple. They are the ones who have changed the OS in such a way as to break older software.

[MGuilfoile]

I assume that those persons using VW2022 purchased a perpetual license, otherwise you would simply upgrade to VW2023 or VW2024, yes? Assuming that is the case, the reasonable--and I feel honorable--thing for VW to do is send a perpetual version of VW2024 to those users. That is the thing about this word "perpetual." Having worked in and for museums most of my career, I can tell you that an accessioned object at a museum is generally accepted with terms that the institution care for the object "in perpetuity." But neither side can predict the future. There may be fires, floods, political unrest, or uncontrolled third parties who change their software in unpredictable ways. And regardless of the calamity, a reputable museum will do everything possible to secure its collection. The reputation of the institution is, in many ways, established in how it reacts to these types of unpredictable events that test it. How do they measure up? Reputation is not only an important thing, it is the ONLY thing that matters. It can be lost in an instant, but take decades to recover--if ever. VW might want to think about that as it considers its options regarding the non-working 2022 perpetual licenses out there. It sounds like neither party is at fault, so what to do?

 

So, here is what I would suggest to Vectorworks: Live up to your promise of delivering a "perpetual" product. Give users of perpetual 2020 through 2022 versions that do not work under Sonoma, a perpetual version of VW2024. Even though it's not your fault, you should live up to your bargain of "perpetual" regardless. This may not mean forever, but, really, I think a reasonable person would say two years is far too short of a term for a software to work. I'd say something more like five years, but whatever it is, put it in writing. 

 

Just my opinion.

MH Brown

[Jeff Prince]

7 minutes ago, MGuilfoile said:

I assume that those persons using VW2022 purchased a perpetual license, otherwise you would simply upgrade to VW2023 or VW2024, yes? Assuming that is the case, the reasonable--and I feel honorable--thing for VW to do is send a perpetual version of VW2024 to those users. That is the thing about this word "perpetual." Having worked in and for museums most of my career, I can tell you that an accessioned object at a museum is generally accepted with terms that the institution care for the object "in perpetuity." But neither side can predict the future. There may be fires, floods, political unrest, or uncontrolled third parties who change their software in unpredictable ways. And regardless of the calamity, a reputable museum will do everything possible to secure its collection. The reputation of the institution is, in many ways, established in how it reacts to these types of unpredictable events that test it. How do they measure up? Reputation is not only an important thing, it is the ONLY thing that matters. It can be lost in an instant, but take decades to recover--if ever. VW might want to think about that as it considers its options regarding the non-working 2022 perpetual licenses out there. It sounds like neither party is at fault, so what to do?

 

So, here is what I would suggest to Vectorworks: Live up to your promise of delivering a "perpetual" product. Give users of perpetual 2020 through 2022 versions that do not work under Sonoma, a perpetual version of VW2024. Even though it's not your fault, you should live up to your bargain of "perpetual" regardless. This may not mean forever, but, really, I think a reasonable person would say two years is far too short of a term for a software to work. I'd say something more like five years, but whatever it is, put it in writing. 

 

Just my opinion.

MH Brown

That’s a hard position for me to support, especially in the technology space.  If I were electing to stay on a previous release in perpetuity, the prudent thing to do is to maintain that vintage of hardware and OS in perpetuity as well.  The user has the choice here and if they want fancy new OS features, they should upgrade their other softwares accordingly.
 

 I have not upgraded to Sonoma yet because I like my software to work 🙂  I don’t understand why people feel compelled to run the latest of everything and then expect it all to work…. New Release = Beta Tester in the software world.

[MGuilfoile]

I see your point, Jeff, and generally agree. In fact, I have a 2008 MacPro with twin Xenon processors running OS10.6.8. I maxed out the ram, installed an SSD, and upgraded the video card. This machine and OS are, in my opinion, the most robust Apple has produced. It is, as you say, frozen in time for the sole purpose of running Logic 9 music creation software. It works amazingly well and I would never expect any modern software to run on it.

 

But I feel this is different and I'm actually not looking at what is best for the VW users. I'm looking at what is best for Vectorworks as a company. In all cases like this, the question is where to draw the line. I feel that updating an OS to the next version does not meet the standard of a wreckless action. It is actually promoted by both Apple (or Windows) that you should upgrade. Vectorworks does the same. It's not like the users of 2022 are jumping three or four OS versions and expecting it to work. It would be different, for example, if I expected the 2024 version of Logic to run on my 2008 MacPro. So, I'm suggesting drawing the line at five years for a perpetual license. Not only would that fulfill their promise of software that will work for a reasonable term, but I also think it is very beneficial to Vectorworks to show this level of support for its users. It is a very small price to pay and a great opportunity for VW to show it cares about its user base--and building it. I admit companies rarely think about goodwill being a positive business decision. But they should. Vectorworks has a tiny user base. This is an easy way to help build it.

 

MH Brown

Edited 22 hours ago by MGuilfoile

[Jeff Prince]

I’m glad I’m not in the software business 🙂

 

[MGuilfoile]

Me too!