Realistic 3D human figures for renderings

[MGuilfoile]

My company includes designers who use FormZ and 3D Studio Max. I don't recall where they downloaded the 3D humans they use, but they are complex meshes with even more complex texture maps. They are, however, very realistic. As with many such third-party products, these are not made native for Vectorworks. I can, however, open the native files in either 3DS or FormZ (which I also use) and export them as .obj files to VW. This format conserves the texture maps and even loads them into Vectorworks as textures. When I first did this, I was really happy because as I checked them in Shaded mode they all looked just as good as they did in 3DS or FormZ. When rendered in Vectorworks Styles (Realistic Interior Fast or Final) the textures appear shiny and/or missing. There is a smoothing angle option for import and I tried playing with this, but it didn't do anything. Does anyone have any thoughts on how to fix this or where I can find 3D humans that are just as good as these that work with VW? As a side note to VW staff: you really need to get on board with V-ray and other third-party apps like these mesh figures. I appreciate that you want to present VW as a "one-stop shop" for design needs, but that needs to be tempered with a little common sense. Thanks for any help in this.

MH Brown

[MGuilfoile]

So, I was able to create a fairly good group of people using OBJ, FormZ, and some mesh simplifying, smoothing, as texture map settings. Here they are for a group photo. There are still two that don't want to play ball, but I'm happy so far.

[Jeff Prince]

19 minutes ago, MGuilfoile said:

Here they are for a group photo.

Nice work.  Isn’t it amazing how far things have come in recent years?

[mjm]

It's interesting how individualized each designer's needs can be. I prefer the articulable types, as old as they are, because my clients are choreographers and things resonate so much more with them when direction and force are indicated. I needed someone half naked in a bathtub for one of the last three premieres I just got done doing. And people rolling around on the floor, and 'moving' in unison with gestures resembling those the Choreo made. Etc.

Additionally, I often take costume swatches / colors and apply to the figures I use, to help with the visualization. And I have the ability to manipulate: body mass type, skin tone, hair color, footwear etc. Do I care if they look ultra realistic? Nawp. Do I care if they help express the physical and visual intent of the client? yeppers.

 

I'll be real sad when those figures fail to work in VWX. And they're starting to fail now. Sometimes they break apart and cannot be put back together, lol.
As I don't see anything at that price covering that range of - well everything, esp without going outside the VWX package, I have no reason to move on. Yet.

Anyone knows of any package which covers all or most of these features, please do alert me, even if it's another software package.

 

[Jeff Prince]

16 minutes ago, mjm said:

Anyone knows of any package which covers all or most of these features, please do alert me, even if it's another software package.

have you tried Poser?

[rDesign]

15 minutes ago, mjm said:

I'll be real sad when those figures fail to work in VWX. And they're starting to fail now. Sometimes they break apart and cannot be put back together, lol.

The quote ‘Human’ Figures were deprecated and assigned Legacy status back in Vw2016, meaning that they are no longer being developed or supported.
 

The former Vw employee @PVA - Admin said back in 2017 that Vw was planning to replace it with a new tool, but that obviously hasn’t happened yet.

 

[Claes Lundstrom]

9 hours ago, jeff prince said:

have you tried Poser?

 

Have you tried scanning people with your phone ? I suspect that many of the photo realistic figures shown in previous discussions are just that. If it works, you get exactly what you want in poses and dressing, 

 

 

[Jeff Prince]

6 hours ago, Claes Lundstrom said:

Have you tried scanning people with your phone ? I suspect that many of the photo realistic figures shown in previous discussions are just that. If it works, you get exactly what you want in poses and dressing, 

no, a phone is not going to produce good results.  Those “real people” type models are shot on a fairly sophisticated camera array that takes every angle simultaneously and software creates a textured model from it.  That’s how they get such good children and animals, subjects notorious for moving around 🙂. I saw one of these rigs years ago at a mall where they would make figurines of people on a color 3D printer.

[Claes Lundstrom]

OK just wondered. Scanned some granite sculptures in the past with fairly decent results but they don't move much do they. Even 3D printed fairly well. 

 

 

[mjm]

19 hours ago, jeff prince said:

have you tried Poser?

Not yet. Looks a little spendy at first glance tho.

Edited May 16, 2023 by mjm
Sp

[BartHays]

Well this is a tricky  box to unpack but there is also DAZ 3D.

Like Poser, DAZ is a tool for creating fantasy art of (mostly) human figures.

Be wary there is a lot of content there that is marginally SFW.
 

However, there is also a HUGE model repository. The model are much less expensive than at many other model houses. 

The DAZ 3D software is free. and you can export models and textures to OBJ files. The assets are where they make money.

There are base figures for humans that are totally posable and there are many stock poses too. 

In my museum work I have used many of the Animals, plants, and props from DAZ and posed them to suit my needs.

Humans are complicated enough that I have found there is better value in stock 3D figures like the ones above , or just Entourage silhouettes.

 

But, if you want to take the deep dive, its another resource. 

 

www.daz3d.com

 

Bart

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

So, I took a little ribbing for the figures that could articulate, but they have a value.  One, they were free, but there are four images below.  First row is hi res and you would definitely use Bob on the left, but look at the other rows.  In a large venue, dark with lights flashing, what would be the difference.

 

I don't do theatre so I had to use what I had for a backdrop.

 

- First Row

- Fourth Row

- Tenth Row

- Cheap seats

 

- Fourth Row

- Tenth Row

- Cheap seats

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

If we move to the other end of the scale in human figures and 3D realistic modelling, my previous point is more prevalent.  Recently I partnered with Johnathan Reeves out of England.  He does many of Vectorworks release promos.  We partnered on Twinmotion, which in full disclosure I know little about, but am truly amazed at this programs capabilities.  If I was younger, I would be all over it.

I did the modelling, transferred to C4D and Jonathan brought it into Twinmotion and "Wow".  The first few minutes of his Twinmotion tutorial is awe inspiring, but to my point of human figures.

1 - The figures you see appear very real, but you can't really see detail.  The programs could have used my 25 year old human figures and it would appear the same.

2 - Human figures have to match the surrounding models.  As fantastic as the Twinmotion movie is, the only thing that gives it away that it is not real are the human figures.

 

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by VIRTUALENVIRONS

[JustinVH]

We have done internal testing using the VW Nomad app and taken 75-100 photos of employees posing and then imported them and generated nice 3D human models with relatively low overhead. They are not posable but they are full 3D and can cast and receive shadows. The image below was only taken with 50 photos which is why the face comes in somewhat distorted. The more photos you take the better the detail and these come into VW as mesh with texture.

[mjm]

I guess my situation is completely niche-based.

[Dave Donley]

20 hours ago, mjm said:

I guess my situation is completely niche-based.

 

If you need posable figures this mobile app is listed a few places and can export to OBJ which can be imported into Vectorworks: https://magicposer.com/

 

The Nomad app with macOS Object Capture as the kernel for Photos to 3D Model is doing a good job right now, as Justin mentioned earlier.  You could scan the actual actors in their costumes if you wanted to using Nomad.

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

On 5/17/2023 at 10:10 AM, JustinVH said:

They are not posable but they are full 3D and can cast and receive shadows.

HI Justin,  Cool stuff.  But, I have a question.  One of the reasons I use simpler bodies is they articulate.  If you are not animating, then there are a lot of options that include post processing.  Using non-articulating bodies in an animation can ruin it..

If you were to take the twenty five year old bodies I posted (and got laugh at) and simply did better texture mapping for clothes, 3D scanned some real heads that were interchangeable, users would be all set.

If you watched the Twinmotion post, the only thing that gives it away that it is not real are the people, even though they are high quality.  I guess what I am saying is that the model quality has to match the figure quality.  Even Hollywood can't do that yet.

 

Edited May 18, 2023 by VIRTUALENVIRONS

[mjm]

10 hours ago, Dave Donley said:

 

If you need posable figures this mobile app is listed a few places and can export to OBJ which can be imported into Vectorworks: https://magicposer.com/

 

The Nomad app with macOS Object Capture as the kernel for Photos to 3D Model is doing a good job right now, as Justin mentioned earlier.  You could scan the actual actors in their costumes if you wanted to using Nomad.

@Dave Donley—thanks for the link, I'll check it out. In my world, things generally move way too rapidly and at the same time, belatedly, either from information paralysis  or simple over work. I'm often lucky to have costumes on hangers for cueing.

EDIT: went a checked out Magic Poser - holy cow, so easy! except for the export portion only included in the 15$ / month subscription.

Dang.

Edited May 19, 2023 by mjm

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

Saturday Afternoon stuff.

I am not attempting to answer any question on this post.  I am visualizing some of the points discussed such as;

- how real do you need

- static figures in a moving scene

- articulating figures vs static

So the short video below has a fairly realistic Grand Trunk Union Railways station circa 1930 with quality static figures and my 20 year old articulated figures walking, moving talking etc.  Now, if you were very talented or could pay someone to articulate the static figures it would be better, but how much better is the question.  Would you really need it to close the contract.

 

 

[Jeff Prince]

1 hour ago, VIRTUALENVIRONS said:

Now, if you were very talented or could pay someone to articulate the static figures it would be better, but how much better is the question.

 

You don't have to pay people to animate static figures unless you can't find what you need within the animation software or from vendors who provide prebaked content for such.

 

Here's an animation from one of my projects.  Note that you can see people moving and walking around on each floor during the exterior shots, they are the same people you see in the interior shots.  The only rigging necessary is setting walk paths for people who walk, the character definition takes care of the rest of the movements.  Modern real time animation software (TwinMotion/Enscape/Lumion/etc) and nimble techniques allow you to build the entire project and populate the whole thing with entourage from a single file which then generates your animation and stills.  While they are not perfectly simulated humans, It's really crazy how far things have come.  If you watch very carefully from 1:36 to 1:50, you will see what I'm talking about.  Every person, plant, and animated video screen is active during the exterior animation with the reflection on the glass from a spherical HDRI I actually shot with my drone  🙂

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 20, 2023 by jeff prince

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

Hi Jeff

Very cool.  What did you use to make the movie?

 

Paul

[Jeff Prince]

18 minutes ago, VIRTUALENVIRONS said:

Hi Jeff

Very cool.  What did you use to make the movie?

 

Paul

 

Thanks, it was a team effort in terms of the presentation.  I focused on the LA, photography & cinematography... ground and aerial based.

Software was Premier Pro and a little bit of After Effects.