Why do you not draw in 1:1

[Paul Johnson]

Hi. I am a garden designer who has previously used AutoCAD for technical drawing output and Sketchup for 3D presentations.  I am hoping to use Vectorworks landmark for both and I thought that was the whole point of the software.  Why is it then that you have to assign a scale to draw in workspace and not when you output.  I may wish to have a plan in 1:50 and some details in 1:20 and also use the same drawing for a 3D visual.  How can I possibly know what to draw in before I start?  Do I have to re draw the whole thing for each drawing?!  Im sure this can not be the case.

[markdd]

You absolutely do not have to do any redrawing.

 

Design Layer scale will give you a simulation of what the output will look like at an intended scale on your screen. If you zoom the view to 100% then the objects will be exactly the same size as they will be on the printed page at the scale of your design layer. It will give you a good idea of what your line weights, dash styles etc etc will look like when they are finally printed at the predominant scale that you intend to use. 

 

You can change the design Layer scale at any time though.

 

When outputting to viewports you should pick the scale that you have been using in the design layers, but you certainly don't have to. If you want to rescale lineweights and other resources because your viewports are at a different scale for say, details etc, then you can rescale most resources from the advanced properties section of the viewports.

 

This is IMO a much more user friendly workflow than the AutoCAD one which I used to find very unpredictable. However, that was quite a long time ago, and I am sure things must have moved on in AutoCAD since then....

 

 

[unearthed]

AFAIK vw's 'ability' to draw in modelspace at scales other than 1:1 predates viewports. I have never drawn anything at other than 1:1 in either acad, sketchup or vw.

 

IDK why VW continues to have this 'feature' as sometimes it results in messes where you import a file and get some odd scaling, also something to watch out for when waking up very old jobs.

[Pat Stanford]

To add on to what @markdd said, everything in VW is actually drawn at 1:1. If you want to draw an object that is 48-feet long, you use the scale bars or heads up data bar and draw it as 48-feet. It does not matter if you are 1:1 scale or 1:48 (1/4-inch) layer scale, the rulers and menu bars will still show it as being 48' long. You do not have to do any conversions to think about the fact that the line length will only be 1" long when printed at 1/4" scale.

 

The basic idea is that if you are drawing at a Layer Scale that is "close" to what you output scale is going to be, then you can use line weights and text sizes that are appropriate for the output instead of using huge sizes that will look appropriate when scaled down..

 

But VW is very flexible. You can draw everything at 1:1 if you want and ignore layer scales except when you have to share with others or output final drawings.

 

But what I am reading between the lines is "Why doesn't this work like AC that I already know." For that my suggestion is stop trying to compare them. They are very different programs designed for similar but different uses. If you are going to be using VW, then just accept how it works and use it to the best of its abilities rather than try to force it to work the way you used another program.

[Jeff Prince]

@Paul Johnson You might want to watch a few training videos to get you started on the right foot as the program can be a little confusing coming from AutoCAD, though the workflows are not radically different once you get a handle on organizing your drawings with Classes (autocad layers), Design Layers (autoCAD model space), and Sheet Layers (autocad paperspace).

 

I say this as someone who used AutoCAD for 20 years before switching to Vectorworks.  Invest some time in  https://learn.archoncad.com and it will get easy in weeks rather than months.

[Chad Hamilton HAArchs]

FWW - I try to draw everything in a design layer while viewing the title block and detail module - even if the drawing will eventually be viewed on a Sheet Layer - this lets me format the drawing to the paper space it will be formatted on.  I've always thought the ability to draw this way was a strength of vectorworks.

[Pat Stanford]

@Chad Hamilton HAarchs I agree. In a drawing I did recently I added an extra layer called Title Block Reference just so I could see where the title block (that would eventually be placed on each sheet layer) would be while I was drawing.

 

It is amazing how little things like this can make a huge difference in productivity.

[zeno]

On 2/13/2021 at 8:19 PM, Paul Johnson said:

Hi. I am a garden designer who has previously used AutoCAD for technical drawing output and Sketchup for 3D presentations.  I am hoping to use Vectorworks landmark for both and I thought that was the whole point of the software.  Why is it then that you have to assign a scale to draw in workspace and not when you output.  I may wish to have a plan in 1:50 and some details in 1:20 and also use the same drawing for a 3D visual.  How can I possibly know what to draw in before I start?  Do I have to re draw the whole thing for each drawing?!  Im sure this can not be the case.

Garden designer using Autocad? 

OMG welcome to the new life!

 

 

[line-weight]

This has been discussed previously and it's one of those things about VW that is more confusing than it needs to be. When you are asked what scale you'd like your layer to be at, it suggests that you're setting something intrinsic to the layer but you're not. You're just setting how you'd like to "view" that layer whilst working in it.

 

It would be much more logical (and useful) to have this as something you choose on the fly, along with things like render mode and projection.

 

I realise there might be legacy reasons to leave it where it is... but it could at least be renamed to something like "scaled viewing simulation" (OK, something better than that, but less confusing than how it's currently presented).

[LarryO]

Scale functionality sets the multiplication factor for the printable area in a Design Layer(s) in addition to annotation placed in those environments. No more manually sizing up or down text fonts (such as when used in AC's Model Space) to suit the final print output.

The plus of VWs is that a work file can contain more than one Design Layer with different scales and visibility whereas the last time I worked with AutoCad only one Model Space existed per file, excluding Xref functionality. A 3d model can be created at the centre of it's own environment without other 3d objects potentially being visible to one side or the other. Very flexible!

[hollister design Studio]

On 2/16/2021 at 9:37 PM, LarryO said:

...The plus of VWs is that a work file can contain more than one Design Layer with different scales and visibility ...

This is a really useful function that was never played up in the tutorials I watched when getting my head around VW after years (and years) of AutoCAD.

I use it often now, but I still think it's confusing to have it as a byproduct of 'Scale' instead of it's own feature. I arbitrarily choose a scale slightly bigger or smaller for no real reason except that I can 'isolate those drawings.

 

I absolutely agree with @line-weight about a more logical naming ("scaled viewing simulation" isn't it! ).

But something to describe that you are not drawing in 1/4=1'-0" but 1:1 AND that the workspace is simulating scaled annotations and line weights for a InDesign like 'preflight.'

 

Maybe call it 'scale preflight'... 

[Jeff Prince]

@hollister design Studio 

But that would confuse the VWX users who draw at 1:1, set their layer scale at the producible drawing scale, and place a scaled title block in the design layer instead of using sheet layers... just like those people who draw everything in AutoCAD modelspace and scale title blocks instead of using paper space ;)

[LarryO]

8 hours ago, hollister design Studio said:

Maybe call it 'scale preflight'... 

I vote for "Modulus", the english language is without shame in grabbing words from other languages and reshaping the definition.

 

🙂ridere