Section Viewport Display?

[Bruce Kieffer]

I want to use section viewports to isolate cabinet components to dimension them. Here is a a side of an upper cabinet. Problem is I can't find a section VP wire frame render option. Those black rectangles are cabinet dividers where the VP is cut. I need those to be transparent so I see and dimension the biscuit grooves I need for assembly. Is there some setting I can change to make those black rectangles wireframe?

 

This is how the design layer looks:

Edited December 1, 2023 by Bruce Kieffer

[Pat Stanford]

With the Section Viewport selected, choose the Advanced Properties button in the OIP.  

In the Attributes Pane, make sure you are set to use Separate Cross Sections.

In the Attributes Class field, either Switch to None class or change the properties of the Section Style class to have no fill.

 

[Bruce Kieffer]

I cannot get the outline of the cabinet dividers to show along with the biscuit grooves, and that's what I need.

I either get this with the divider class turned on:

 

Or this with the divider class turned off:

Edited December 1, 2023 by Bruce Kieffer

[Pat Stanford]

Can you move your Section Plane 1/16th out from the surface so you are sectioning both the divider and the biscuit?

[line-weight]

12 hours ago, Pat Stanford said:

In the Attributes Class field, either Switch to None class or change the properties of the Section Style class to have no fill.

 

I don't know if it's "working as intended" or not, but this doesn't work.

 

The biscuits could be made visible by using dashed hidden line for "extents beyond cut plane", see example file below. The dashed line could be changed to a solid one.

 

This may mess up things elsewhere though, maybe revealing geometry further beyond. Then there is the extents of the section to play with.

 

This is all a bit of a roundabout way to do things though.

 

Personally I'd just make those biscuits their own class, the dividers another, and turn them on or off as desired.

 

 

 

 

 

sect.vwx

[Bruce Kieffer]

Got it working! I'm not sure how, but I did make a few changes that you @line-weight suggested. Even so... It's a mystery to me!

[Bruce Kieffer]

Thanks everyone for the help. Sadly, I cannot snap to the hole centers in the section viewport (on the left). I added a "standard" VP (right), and I can snap to those circle centers. Am I missing something?

[Bruce Kieffer]

I found a solution that works and I can snap to the hole centers to add dimensions. Clip cube! Biscuit grooves, cabinet dividers, and cabinet edgings show, Just what I need.

[Bruce Kieffer]

Darn it, Vectorworks fooled me! The clip cube can only be shown in the VP with Shaded or RW rendering. I'm told there's a way to do what I need. I'll report back if I find out how.

 

[line-weight]

The clip cube is just another way of choosing your section plane for a section viewport. I don't think there's anything different about the kind of viewport it creates.

 

When you say a "standard" VP do you mean something like "front" view, that is, not a section viewport?

 

Regarding dimensioning the holes - I think you have uncovered a bug. Trying in VW2023, I too can't get the dimension tool to snap to circle centres within the annotation layer of a section viewport. This may already have been raised elsewhere... I think I have seen complaints about making angular dimensions as well.

 

Doing a quick experiment just now, here are scenarios where I can and can't snap to a circle centre, in annotations space of the relevant viewport:

 

Section viewport, dashed hidden line rendering - No, can't snap

Section viewport, shaded rendering - No, can't snap

"Front" view viewport, dashed hidden line rendering - No, can't snap

"Front" viewport, shaded rendering - Yes, can snap

[EAlexander]

11 hours ago, Bruce Kieffer said:

Darn it, Vectorworks fooled me! The clip cube can only be shown in the VP with Shaded or RW rendering. I'm told there's a way to do what I need. I'll report back if I find out how.

 

I set up the clip cube where I want it - Right click on the Clip cube and choose Create section viewport and then the viewport is just like any other Section viewport i.e. I can set any viewport render modes I want - are you not seeing that behavior?  I do this all day long on 3d models when I'm drafting.

[Bruce Kieffer]

51 minutes ago, EAlexander said:

I set up the clip cube where I want it - Right click on the Clip cube and choose Create section viewport and then the viewport is just like any other Section viewport i.e. I can set any viewport render modes I want - are you not seeing that behavior?  I do this all day long on 3d models when I'm drafting.

 

That works, but there is no Wireframe render option for the section VP, although Unshaded Polygon does show the biscuit grooves. Even so, I cannot snap to the drilled hole centers, and that is the main problem I have with the section VP.

[Tom W.]

@Bruce Kieffer did you consider getting a trial version of Interiorcad? 🙂

 

It would be perfect for what you're doing.

[Bruce Kieffer]

1 hour ago, Tom W. said:

@Bruce Kieffer did you consider getting a trial version of Interiorcad? 🙂

 

It would be perfect for what you're doing.

I wouldn't get enough use from it at this point since I am retired.

[line-weight]

1 hour ago, Bruce Kieffer said:

 

I cannot snap to the drilled hole centers, and that is the main problem I have with the section VP.

 

I think this is a bug & it needs to be picked up by any VW people reading this.

 

I don't know if it's related to what's discussed here:

 

https://forum.vectorworks.net/index.php?/topic/111074-radial-dimension-tool-not-working/

 

[Matt Panzer]

21 hours ago, line-weight said:

23 hours ago, Bruce Kieffer said:

 

I cannot snap to the drilled hole centers, and that is the main problem I have with the section VP.

 

I think this is a bug & it needs to be picked up by any VW people reading this.

 

I don't know if it's related to what's discussed here:

 

https://forum.vectorworks.net/index.php?/topic/111074-radial-dimension-tool-not-working/

 

I would say this is a technical limitation rather than a bug.  Hidden Line renders are a collection of lines generated from the model.  So, those circles are no longer circles.  Actually, since those are really holes subtracted from a solid, I'm not sure you can snap to the centers in the model either (I'd need to test).  I certainly get why you want to have this but wanted to explain why it is the way it is.

[line-weight]

Certainly you can snap to the centre of a subtracted circular hole in a design layer.

 

[Bruce Kieffer]

I spoke with Bryan Goff yesterday. He's a Vectorworks trainer and a member of our local Vectorworks community group. There are numerous ways for me to create viewports that show the cabinet components I need to see so I can dimension them. That's not the point. I saw section viewports as a possible simple way. Unfortunately they are too limited and that leads me to ask these questions...

 

What are section viewports used for, and why use them if they are so limited?

[Tom W.]

23 hours ago, Bruce Kieffer said:

I wouldn't get enough use from it at this point since I am retired.

 

I'm pretty sure when I demoed it I had it for a month but looks like now the demo period is only 7 days which is a different story...

[Matt Panzer]

1 hour ago, line-weight said:

Certainly you can snap to the centre of a subtracted circular hole in a design layer.

 

 

OK, right.  And the centers are snappable in a regular wireframe viewport as well because the model is shown as a whole.

[line-weight]

1 hour ago, Bruce Kieffer said:

I spoke with Bryan Goff yesterday. He's a Vectorworks trainer and a member of our local Vectorworks community group. There are numerous ways for me to create viewports that show the cabinet components I need to see so I can dimension them. That's not the point. I saw section viewports as a possible simple way. Unfortunately they are too limited and that leads me to ask these questions...

 

What are section viewports used for, and why use them if they are so limited?

 

I don't think they are really "too limited" - I think you were trying to use a section viewport when what you wanted wasn't really a section.

 

Section viewports are critical for architectural documentation. 99% of all orthogonal viewports I create for architectural projects are section viewports.

 

They are what you use to show the detail of internal buildups of walls, roofs and so on.

 

They are also what you use to explain the relative levels of the interior of a building and the relationship to adjacent buildings, site levels etc.

 

In practice they are also what you use for external elevations (or at least I do) because buildings aren't free floating objects - they are always embedded in a context. So a building elevation is really a section through the landscape parallel to the face of the building you are looking at.

Edited December 5, 2023 by line-weight

[line-weight]

48 minutes ago, Matt Panzer said:

 

OK, right.  And the centers are snappable in a regular wireframe viewport as well because the model is shown as a whole.

 

If I were doing mechanical engineering type drawings I might well have eg. "front" and "side" view viewports, rendered in hidden line or dashed hidden line, right?

 

I'd have thought that in that context, it would be very surprising if I could not dimension a circular feature, and this was intended behaviour.

[Bruce Kieffer]

18 minutes ago, line-weight said:

 

I don't think they are really "too limited" - I think you were trying to use a section viewport when what you wanted wasn't really a section.

 

Section viewports are critical for architectural documentation. 99% of all orthogonal viewports I create for architectural projects are section viewports.

 

They are what you use to show the detail of internal buildups of walls, roofs and so on.

 

They are also what you use to explain the relative levels of the interior of a building and the relationship to adjacent buildings, site levels etc.

 

In practice they are also what you use for external elevations (or at least I do) because buildings aren't free floating objects - they are always embedded in a context. So a building elevation is really a section through the landscape parallel to the face of the building you are looking at.

@line-weight This info is helpful. I figured there must be good uses for them, and as you noted my needs are better served another way. Thanks.

[Mickey]

But why isn't wireframe an option?

I want to see the outlines of my symbols in this one instance I'm currently doing so the reader can see how things are layed out in section but all of the options are rendered so you can't see the lines of the symbols, it's all one big thing.

 

[Mickey]

Ha thwarted again.

I thought this time I really outsmarted 'em.

I created a clip cube so that only my desired objects were visible.

Now no issues of a front view, and seeing through to objects behind what I wanted to show.

Perfect.

Use the command to create a viewport , and "Display with clip cube" so only my clipped view would be in the viewport, and I could give it annotations.

Ha...!

The checkbox was greyed out.

Much head scratching until you hover over it, and read the info.

" ...Only available in shaded and renderworks modes"

Why is it so hard to do a section, or clip cube view port in wireframe?

Edited December 29, 2023 by Mickey