Again, what is the best (current) VW Mouse

[zoomer]

I still use my 3D Connexion CADMouse,

because of the extra separate middle mouse button

(and as I have the 3DCon Driver installed anyways for Space Mouses)

 

But the Mouse again,

this was already the second RMA replacement and now after 4 years,

again it has a corrupt left click.

(Missing clicks and far worse, unwanted double clicks)

 

I am not pleased that another mouse manufacturer also means the need

for another driver suite but I wish for a new Mouse.

 

My wishes :

- reliable in drivers and hardware quality

(basically like any other mouse beside CADMouse that I ever owned)

- separate middle mouse button not mandatory,

as long as the Scroll Wheel works as reliable and comfortable for both,

scrolling AND MMB clicking

- it should have an ergonomic form and buttons and be suitable for a larger hand

(Logitech Mouse Man Wheel around 1998 was perfect, most current mice

feel a bit too small for me .... often thumb buttons are too near for my thumb)

- it should look Apple-like, cool, modern, reasonable colors or lack off, ...

- it should not be from a too exotic manufacturer that goes bankrupt after a few years

(my beloved MadCatz Ratz5 would be great if it would still have macOS drivers)

- it should offer a a USB(C?) Cable, at least optionally beside Bluetooth

- driver need to allow separate Settings specific for each App

 

Basically it will be more about gaming than office mice ....

mainly for CAD and 3D (not gaming)

Edited October 17, 2023 by zoomer

[E|FA]

I'm using the Logitech MX Master 3S for Mac and really like it.  I think it meets all of your criteria and can be bluetooth paired to 3 separate Mac/Windows devices. 

 

OR: I have an almost unused 3D Connection SpaceMouse & CadMouse set that I'd be happy to sell.

[zoomer]

I also first thought about something from Logitech.

Because of driver quality and features and hardware reliability

I experienced in the past.

I will look closer to your recommendation.

 

But I also hope for some reasonable gaming mice options from

Razor or such.

 

BTW,

when Microsoft dropped Mac Driver support

(Until I was so happy with Microsoft Intelli Mouse Explorers for many years,

totally reliable although only in the 30, later $15 price range)

I bought some mice at that time, also a Logitech USB office mouse that had

a "side scroll" scroll wheel feature - which made it totally unreliable for

CAD MMB actions.

Is your offer free of "side scroll" features ?

 

(Watching the feature list it looks like it is ...)

Edited October 17, 2023 by zoomer

[zoomer]

Basically I never ever had a problem with a mouse with a cable ...

(otherwise it is not a Mouse - more a Mole ....)

 

If it is wireless, I do not want to need to change batteries like with

an old Apple Magic Mouse or Keyboard. If it has an USB cable option

to load (or permanent connection offer) that is OK.

If not, at least standard AA or AAA battery sizes for Eneloop rechargeable

batteries .....

[E|FA]

20 minutes ago, zoomer said:

Is your offer free of "side scroll" features ?

 

It has a separate side scroll above the 2 thumb buttons.  I forgot that it's there and never use it.  

[grant_PD]

I switched to this mouse after having ergonomics problems years back.  I won't use any other mouse now for CAD work.  I have a wired version, I can't stand the lag time of wireless mice.  

https://evoshop.biz/evoluent-verticalmouse-large-wireless-p-77.html?osCsid=2pa86fd9tpgdff3sig319l7bt5

[zoomer]

15 minutes ago, E|FA said:

It has a separate side scroll above the 2 thumb buttons.  I forgot that it's there and never use it.  

 

Great, that is like my MadCatz.

It is there, I forgot about too it as it also does not disturb .....

[zoomer]

1 minute ago, grant_PD said:

I switched to this mouse after having ergonomics problems years back.  I won't use any other mouse now for CAD work.  I have a wired version, I can't stand the lag time of wireless mice.  

https://evoshop.biz/evoluent-verticalmouse-large-wireless-p-77.html?osCsid=2pa86fd9tpgdff3sig319l7bt5

 

 

Interesting.

 

Currently I dod not have a problem with standard mouse usage and

I am curious if I could get used to a vertical hand alignment.

But if drag when moving isn't higher I could imagine ...

 

What I can't imagine so far would be a trackball solution ....

[Christiaan]

Still haven't changed my mind about Apple's Magic Mouse. Zooming accuracy and speed is second to none. Ultimate reliability. No drivers needed. Never had any problems with size or shape.

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

I use Apple's Magic Mouse largely because I can't be bothered to try something else, but it is slow to select different tools from the tool palette.  I am not talking about tracking speed, but clicking on Icons.  I have to slow that moment down.  Anyone else? 

 

I asked Vectorworks about this several years ago.  They said that problem was an Apple issue.  It may have to do with Apple, but it the end it is a VW's issue as the Apple platform brings a lot of users to the table.

[zoomer]

2 hours ago, Christiaan said:

Still haven't changed my mind about Apple's Magic Mouse.

 

Will give it al try too again.

 

But i miss the MMB click.

I have the original first Magic Mouse, maybe current ones are better meanwhile.

But I never managed to get a reasonable or reliable MMB click with Better Touch

Tool and similar Apps in the past.

The other problem is that it does not slide that well on my Linoleum desktop cover ....

 

On the other hand I like its gestures in Safari.

Basically great overall, except CAD and 3D.

 

I always wondered why Apple never designed a great mouse for Pro Users

wich such mouse demanding Apps like CAD and BIM ....

[zoomer]

18 hours ago, E|FA said:

I'm using the Logitech MX Master 3S for Mac and really like it.

 

I already ordered one.

But it will take some time until it arrives as I also ordered some not

deliverable cables and adapters ......

(Last time when I ordered I chose only products marked as available

 and some switched to not available while waiting 3 weeks anyway)

 

 

Did a quick look over all Mac compatible mice in an online shop.

Logitech's overall looked most reasonable.

 

Then I was a but unsure about Mac or Mac/PC/Linux version.

Or if MX 2 would be enough too (?)

Not sure why the Mac version is more expensive, although it misses

the Logi Bolt USB Receiver (Would I need that for Linux ?)

and has a USB C to C cable vs USB A to C in PC version,

while my M1 Mini has only 2 (already occupied) USB C Slots.

 

But I chose the MX3 Mac Version.

And therefore the USB adapters and cables 🙂

Edited October 18, 2023 by zoomer

[bcd]

2 hours ago, VIRTUALENVIRONS said:

I use Apple's Magic Mouse largely because I can't be bothered to try something else, but it is slow to select different tools from the tool palette.  I am not talking about tracking speed, but clicking on Icons.  I have to slow that moment down.  Anyone else? 

 

I asked Vectorworks about this several years ago.  They said that problem was an Apple issue.  It may have to do with Apple, but it the end it is a VW's issue as the Apple platform brings a lot of users to the table.

not this?

[jmcewen]

I once again advocate for the UTechsmart Venus, which is nearly identical to the Redragon Impact Elite.  I recently moved to the Redragon Legend.  23 programmable buttons on the Legend (counting the lmb,mmb, and rmb.). Fewer on the Venus/Impact Elite.  

 

Both are available in black or white when I last checked.  The Redragon models have some additional red on them.  They might not have the premium feel of your Rat or Razer, but will be far less expensive to try out; all should be in the neighborhood of $50.

 

Razer has a model with 12 thumb buttons as well, though I have not tried it.

 

The thumb buttons are easy to keep track of if 9 of them replace your numpad.

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

30 minutes ago, bcd said:

not this?

"This". isn't real.  It was a concept design.  It only exists in a 2018 VW file.

[Christiaan]

3 hours ago, VIRTUALENVIRONS said:

I use Apple's Magic Mouse largely because I can't be bothered to try something else, but it is slow to select different tools from the tool palette.  I am not talking about tracking speed, but clicking on Icons.  I have to slow that moment down.  Anyone else? 

I don't experience this. I double-checked to see if I'd just gotten used to something but it's instant for me.

 

[bob cleaver]

I like the vertical mouse 'LOGI' from Logitech - The Evolent models I used were short lived - 

LOGI is comfortable for all day use - 

I run the mouse wired and agree the wireless lag is annoying

There are a few buttons that can be customized and Better Touch Tool app allows for customization - 

[zoomer]

4 hours ago, Christiaan said:

Still haven't changed my mind about Apple's Magic Mouse. Zooming accuracy and speed is second to none. Ultimate reliability. No drivers needed. Never had any problems with size or shape.

 

Also no lags with VW Icons/Buttons here.

 

 

But how do you temporarily orbit your View ?

("Flyover Tool")

 

And how can you live with out 2 Thumb Buttons for "X" Selection and Fit View ?

 

 

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

12 minutes ago, zoomer said:

And how can you live with out 2 Thumb Buttons for "X" Selection and Fit View ?

I really don't know what that means, but please don't explain, then I'll feel I am missing something.  That might interfere with my afternoon nap.

[zoomer]

OK, I could click the "X" on the keyboard to deselect and reset tools.

But Fit View is a bit more complicated 🙂

 

I prefer to have that on my mouse buttons (and/or Space Navigator buttons)

as usually Mice have these Backward/Forward buttons anyway.

And for Bricscad I set them accordingly to ESC and Fit View. Similar for

3D Software. So I have everywhere the same haptic and do not need to

remember each App's keyboard short cuts.

 

Currently I try the magic mouse, which feels slow.

I checked and have already max speed and even acceleration activated.

 

 

Really a pity that my MadCatz does not work on Mac.

It has the best Mercedes/Maybach solid click sound and feeling I ever

experienced.

Unfortunately, without a driver, it must have some non conform signal

output, which is no problem on Windows or Linux but on Mac it

will somehow e.g. not auto expand Menu entries when hovering.

 

I also do not understand why macOS still ignores any extra buttons on

a Mouse. Even for this basic behavior you need already a driver suite.

 

OK, the 3DConnexion CADMous is so non standard that it even does

no basic right mouse clicks with out its monster drivers.

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

I guess I am just too old to learn new tricks.  I largely navigate Vectorworks the same way I navigated MiniCAD 7, but thanks for the explanation.

[zoomer]

1 hour ago, VIRTUALENVIRONS said:

 I largely navigate Vectorworks the same way I navigated MiniCAD 7

 

As you do 3D, do you start the flyover tool to rotate the 3D view ?

 

While others love shortcuts, I am also a notorious Icon clicker and

my mouse curser may travel 5 times as far a day this way as their's,

But View Navigation for me worked everywhere directly with Mouse and

a few single keys.

So in VW this is a bit harder ... ahm ...harder coded, so flyover fails

without a middle mouse button and zoom fails without a scrollwheel.

[zoomer]

BTW,

 

when I was young I was happy to have a real middle mouse button

for CAD. Meanwhile, since getting a MMB again by my CADMouse

I am even more motorically overwhelmed by it. Still don't know

which finger work best.

And will get rid of, hence the switch to a mere standard Logitech

Mouse.

As the MS Intelli Mouse years showed, as long a the scroll wheel

allows a comfortable and reliable MMB click, it is even easier

and faster without a real MMB.

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

11 minutes ago, zoomer said:

As you do 3D, do you start the flyover tool to rotate the 3D view ?

 

If an action occurs with my mouse outside of selecting a tool, it's usually a mistake.  When it comes to VW's the phrase "old school" fits.

 

Although I have a lifetime NFR 2022 and Vectorworks has offered 2023, I largely still build in VW 18.  I find it very stable for NURBS.  

 

I plan to buy a Mac Laptop Pro when it comes out with the M3 chip.  This will likely spur an upgrade.  All I really do these days is model things for free.  I was hoping to transfer a lot of stuff to the VW store, whenever that happens.  I think that will be awhile.

 

A young fellow I help out in 3D printing has given me a challenge.   He sent me a picture of a ceramic desktop Christmas Tree and wondered if I could model it in Vectorworks and make it 3D printable.  I have done a preliminary surface model.  Have to go back at it again.

There company uses Blender and C4D

 

 

[Poot]

I'd also chime in - a bit late- on the Logitech MX Master being a great choice. Rock Solid, dependable and with several extra, but not too many, buttons for helping with drafting. It works on most surfaces without a mousepad.

I preferred the button layout and size (I have big hands) of the Steel Series Rival, but the rubber grip wore off the side (sticky) after 2-3 years, and it needed a mousepad.