Section viewport INCREDIBLY SLOW 2020 WHY!? Beyond cut plane

[zoeageorg]

I am getting so fed up of vectorworks being impossibly slow whenever i cut a section and want to display the objects beyond the cut plane. If i use hidden line, or turn up the sheet layer DPI or open gl quality

 

Ive attached one of my files if anyone wants to try looking

CW2 Barracks.vwx

[Neil Barman]

I would imagine that some or most of the slowness may be caused by your project being so far from origin (0,0). See below.

 

 

Try correcting this and then see how performance of the file is.

 

Also, it looks like a DWG file may have been imported directly into you Vectorworks file. (Since I never know how other people create their DWG files, I prefer to not bring their objects into my otherwise healthy Vectorworks files.) Instead it is advisable to not import DWG files directly into your Vectorworks file but rather to import them into a "shuttle" file that can then be either be cleaned up for import into your Vectorworks file or saved as a Vectorworks file of its own to then reference into you Vectorworks file.

[zoeageorg]

Thanks very much I shall have a look at these!

[zoeageorg]

@Neil Barman i have 'set user origin to internal origin'

should that do the trick?

[Neil Barman]

@zoeageorg It should certainly help. Give it a try and see what your results are. It's always a good idea to work close to origin.

 

If the file is still having performance issues I would recommend auditing it for problematic or overly complex items that may have come in with the DWG file. If you don't need any of those complex items it would be best to delete them. If you do need them but they are still overly complex, it would work worth simplifying them or replacing them with native-built Vectorworks objects.

 

 

[Helen Law]

@zoeageorg Please let us know if you need any further assistance with your Vectorworks file. If the file is still causing you issues after Neil's advice, please send us an email through to uktech@vectorworks.net and we would be happy to help. 

[TomWhiteLight]

23 hours ago, zoeageorg said:

@Neil Barman i have 'set user origin to internal origin'

should that do the trick?

Try tools-origin- centre drawing on internal origin. Other things to check would be extents before and beyond cut plane. Get in touch with Uk tech if you need further assistance.

 

[Jeremy Best]

Hi @zoeageorg, I encounter users with this situation a lot. So often I've created linear instructions for users to correct what I call, 'far out objects.' I'll attach this for you below.

 

I'd like to add to @Neil Barman's comment about complex objects. Even one object - if geometrically complex enough - can have a big impact on certain operations such as rending in Hidden Line. Also, my tests indicate that objects that are cropped out of a Viewport are still part of the calculations performed, which can make rendering times seem disproportionate, but that's the way they have to be done. You can improve this situation though by moving objects outside your crop to another Design Layer or to a Class not featured in the Viewport - but maybe only do that if it suits your workflow/layout needs to do so. 

Tech Support Tutorial; Rectifying 'far out objects' - Written Guide.pdf

[Redmodro]

On 7/11/2020 at 6:01 PM, zoeageorg said:

I'm so fed up of vectorworks 2020. Its painfully slow, we have serious deadlines on a multi-million pound schools project and can't even look at a single elevation generated from the model in open GL. We have set all objects at origin set the user and internal origins to the same point,  purged the life out of the model and nothing works. Its garbage, I'm at a total loss. If we cant do BIM on a project efficiently we'll have no other choice but to move the whole company to another option.

 

I am getting so fed up of vectorworks being impossibly slow whenever i cut a section and want to display the objects beyond the cut plane. If i use hidden line, or turn up the sheet layer DPI or open gl quality

 

Ive attached one of my files if anyone wants to try looking

CW2 Barracks.vwx 21.24 MB · 7 downloads

 

[TomWhiteLight]

8 hours ago, Redmodro said:

 

Hi Zoe

 

Firstly your file is watermarked as an education user. Are you an education user? If not please get in touch and we can discuss un watermarking the file for you. 

 

Also would you be able to post your system specifications on here as your file is incredibly responsive on my machine and I cannot recreate the same issues. Some of your layers have different scales (is this deliberate?) This might cause scaling issues with the model.

 

Additionally there is a large amount of 2d information that exists on the screen plane. I am not sure why this is the case as it appears to be a random selection of geometry text and screen grabs.

 

Please email in to UKTech@vectorworks.net and we can take a look at your file and your workflow.

 

Best wishes

 

Tom W

 

 

[zoeageorg]

@TomWhiteLight hi

 

It wasn't me who actually wrote that about the school's project.

 

Looks like @Redmodro sort of editted what I originally said and even attached my file of my university project

[Redmodro]

Apologies, Ive clicked quote rather than reply.

 

 

[hamilton-black]

I am very interested in this topic because it seems to be a reacurring theme in Vectorworks. I have regularly read about users having problems with the speed of sections and viewports. I have to unfortunately give this a thumbs down.

It seems to me that if a programme requires so many adjustments before executing a simple section viewport, surely one can admit that this is not exactly user friendly. Other programs achieve the same accuracy and quality in quarter of the time and half the adjustments. That's the competition!!! BIM is all well and good, but if i can't easily execute 2D representations of my 3D model, i'll have a hard job presenting my project.  In the end, it shouldn't matter where the 0,0 point is or if you've imported a sketchup file or not. I've imported these files , cleaned them up completetly beforehand, made a plug-In and they still take forever. Why are textures such a problem for Vectoroworks to achieve in rendered format? Vectorworks should consider alternatives to converting everything to a viewport......if it takes so much much time, I mean. What is the advantage of this anyway?.....That it updates. I have to manually update it whenever i make changes to the construction layer and wait again anyway. In the real world we have to deliever things quickly. Think outside the box Vectorworks, i say. Other than this issue, i have to say that the program runs great. I am generally a satisfied user. 

Edited December 14, 2020 by hamilton-black

[TomWhiteLight]

HI Hamilton, there is a simpler way to create a section viewport, did you know that you can use the clip cube to create an instant section viewport?

 

In terms of the settings, yes there are lots of options and some more advanced users have requested these options.

 

Unfortunately the 0,0 point is important, not just in Vectorworks but the exactly the same origin issues exist in Sketchup, Autodesk products and pretty much any CAD software design program.

 

Creating viewports is about quality. Your workspace DPI is 72 your sheet layer DPI can be literally as high as you want. If you exported views from within the design layer they can look fuzzy.

 

You shouldn't need to manually update a viewport on a sheet except to clarify the end results. You can update all of your viewports on export through the publish menu.

 

If you are looking for instant real time rendering have you tried any of our plug-ins with Lumion and Enscape?

 

You should check them out!

 

[hamilton-black]

6 minutes ago, TomWhiteLight said:

HI Hamilton, there is a simpler way to create a section viewport, did you know that you can use the clip cube to create an instant section viewport?

 

In terms of the settings, yes there are lots of options and some more advanced users have requested these options.

 

Unfortunately the 0,0 point is important, not just in Vectorworks but the exactly the same origin issues exist in Sketchup, Autodesk products and pretty much any CAD software design program.

 

Creating viewports is about quality. Your workspace DPI is 72 your sheet layer DPI can be literally as high as you want. If you exported views from within the design layer they can look fuzzy.

 

You shouldn't need to manually update a viewport on a sheet except to clarify the end results. You can update all of your viewports on export through the publish menu.

 

If you are looking for instant real time rendering have you tried any of our plug-ins with Lumion and Enscape?

 

You should check them out!

 

 

Thank you for your answer. I have actually been using the Cube Clip recently because i gave up with the Section viewports. I agree with you that it is definitely much quicker than the sections. It does however have the slight disadvantage, that it contains fewer structural details.

 

Unfortunately i am limited to Vectorowrks at the moment and haven't purchased Lumion yet. I will think about it but as far as i understand it doesn't update with my Vectorworks Data which means when i have to make chnages,  i will have to create all the Renderings all again.

 

72 dpi is way too low for good quality Renderings, in my experience.  But equally, when you raise it, it takes longer to export. I use 150 or 300 dpi for Sheet Layers. I have actually discovered, after months of work, a way to create good quality renderings and sections without lending too much time to it. However this is about three times longer than it took me to learn with other 3D programs.....and that's the problem, right there. My point isn't IF you can do it with Vectorworks, the point is it's too complicated. There's also no official detailed manual to look up, other than the "help" assistant , which let's be honest, doesn't answer half the questions.  This forum is the best thing. I think they should write up a lot of the Tips and Tricks from this Forum into the help manual. This would seriously help the Users better.

[TomWhiteLight]

Hi Hamilton.

 

So the Lumion and Enscape Live Sync does not require anything to be re-drawn/rendered, You can apply different textures in lumion if you wish. Changes will track between the programs.

 

Rendering improvements are definitely on our road map so watch this space.

 

I take your point with regards to training. I can assure you that new content is being added to the Vectorworks University on a daily basis and the choice of content will only improve.

 

With regards to Vectorworks UI/UX, you are witnessing years of developments and improvements, I understand it is complex compared to alternative modelling software but the bespoke toolsets and myriad of options allow so many different users to tailor their own individual workflows and not be restricted or constrained. Almost all of the settings in all of the dialogues can either be saved or pre-set and then save the file as a template.

 

 

 

[Redmodro]

To create a section viewport that can be used to create a 1:50 level of detail section what are the optimal settings?

 

[TomWhiteLight]

OK so...

 

The scale doesn't really matter aside from fitting it onto the sheet, you can adjust levels of detail via detail level but it depends on how the symbols were created. Planar objects apply if you have them in the model same goes for objects that are 2d. Render settings are personal to the type of appearance you are after. It's best to make loads of section viewports set to a small scale (1:100 - 1:200) and keep the DPI of the sheet low. Use this sheet as a test page to get the look you want before increasing the DPI for the final results. We keep the DPI low at first to see results quickly.

 

I tend to not use extents settings as I have normally specified the extents with the final click of the create section viewport I very rarely (never) want the viewport to look beyond that. However it's really up to you and I design Lighting for Entertainment shows (not buildings).

 

We have this training course on the University (service select content) which might help...

 

https://university.vectorworks.net/mod/page/view.php?id=632

 

Best wishes

 

Tom W

 

[hamilton-black]

Idealy i've found its best to do a Section with Open GL (if you want a bit of colour) and with a scale that fits your sheet. Then you get a mixture of colour and hatching. However you do need to have an outside light source. (just one). Otherwise it's too dark. I don't agree with using the lowest quality (72 dpi) in the beginning because it is rarely good enough and you'll just have to render it again later. Use 150 dpi first, whether its the sheet layer or a rendering. Also set the quality of the Vieport to High and not Middle. However all of this still doesn't work if you have very complicated texture/materials in the drawing...for example imported from another software. It still takes an age then. The Clip Cube is then a better option. However this is only my personal experience and i'm not an expert........yet!!

[Redmodro]

Thanks for trying Tom & Hamilton/black, but we couldn't even get close to setting the 3d conversion rate to High as the IFC export to the other consultants is over 1GB and falls outside the parameters set in the BEP of IFC files sizes being below 250mb per IFC model.

 

Resolution again cant be set above 72dpi or the section view port wont generate at all.

 

Generally 3d symbols are extruded solids and IFC data attached to them or used as custom symbol geometry within parametric window / door objects.

We only use a very limited palette of textures and only in a few select locations on the facade, We have no intention of using vectorworks as a commercial rendering tool there are better tools out there. We simply want a hidden line section that we can add detail to in the annotation layer. We are finding that even the most basic section isn't possible even to check floor to floor heights.

 

We have tried section clip and can navigate with this way but as soon as we try to create a viewport of this the software crashes or freezes for hours with spinning balloon of death. 

It strikes us that vectorworks is just not suitable for large scale BIM projects and should remain a tool of the domestic architect.

We have resigned ourselves to manually drawing all sections at all levels of detail, we're just disappointed with the reality of what is possible.

 

 

[bcd]

@ 100dpi the Section Viewport rendered for me in HLR in <7s

Have you tried adjusting your Vectorworks Preferences>Display>Navigation Graphics @ all?

[Redmodro]

Navigation graphics set to best performance.

[Redmodro]

7 secs is amazing, this is what i just got

[TomWhiteLight]

Have you contacted Tech Support? 

 

"We have tried section clip and can navigate with this way but as soon as we try to create a viewport of this the software crashes or freezes for hours with spinning balloon of death. 

It strikes us that vectorworks is just not suitable for large scale BIM projects and should remain a tool of the domestic architect.

We have resigned ourselves to manually drawing all sections at all levels of detail, we're just disappointed with the reality of what is possible."

 

Please contact tech support who can resolve your issue. Also please avoid derogatory and rude comments on a forum where people are just trying to help you.

 

Lastly did you want to tell KBNK Architects that they are just a 'Domestic Architect' or should I?

 

https://www.vectorworks.net/customer-showcase/a-telltale-introduction-to-open-bim

 

 

 

[TomWhiteLight]

p.s. Instead of redrawing a viewport you could convert it to lines.

[Redmodro]

Yes I have contacted Tech support, with numerous issues. I've not heard back from them in few weeks.  Apologies if i have been critical of the software, Im not trying to be derogatory or rude.

 

TomWhitelight i have just been experimenting with modify>convert a copy to lines which while rudimentary will have to suffice, thanks for your input.