Boh Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 I've found that a class system well formatted for hierarchical display means I don't really need any tags or filters. With diligent use of the alt/shift keys I can quickly expand/collapse my class list as needed in the nav palette to easily get where I want with minimal scrolling. My file might have 500+ classes but my fully collapsed class list has only 15 class "types" with only max 3 levels of hierarchy. Everything on my design layers gets classed to so the nav palette gets used a lot. This is my collapsed class list for my standard architectural template. 2 Quote Link to comment
Mark Aceto Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 18 hours ago, zoomer said: Because it is just so much more tedious to target the arrows to expand these hierarchies for Class access than it is to scroll through the list. I like the pilot's instrument panel analogy: everything is immediately accessible (on a large surface). But that's what works for me. If another user likes clicking to expand / collapse their instruments... I'm glad we both have options. 18 hours ago, zoomer said: Also did the "-" separator did not fit my upper case Naming with "_" if needed - Which I find much more legible. In general and it makes still the full Class List Scrolling more legible. I'm on the verge of going ALL CAPS because it seems like no amount of begging and pleading will ever succeed in increasing the smallest text size on my screen even 1 point. 18 hours ago, zoomer said: The only advantage I could see for the Hierarchy option, in it is current state, is when you have really large amounts of Classes like 300+, because VW does not really intelligently remember the last Class scrolling Position when you do the same task over and over again. VW arbitrarily opens the new Class chooser at any strange position and you always have to read in again to find the scroll direction way up or down to your current interesting Class "group". I may be misunderstanding the issue you're describing but these 2 checkboxes should help manage that: 1 Quote Link to comment
zoomer Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 47 minutes ago, Mark Aceto said: I may be misunderstanding the issue you're describing but these 2 checkboxes should help manage that At first I thought I missed a Setting. The second point looks nearly interesting. But I want Hierarchy OFF. Then the "Preserve (....) State of Classes" option is not available for me. I would need option like "Preserve Scroll Lists/Bars last position". Or at least "Start from Top" or "Start from bottom" or similar ... AFAIK In dialogs where I have to assign Classes to something like Parts of a Stair, the Window will be too short for my Class list so it has a scroll bar and allows scroll wheeling navigation - fine Each time such a List Window Opens VW presents a certain position. My Classes of interest are usually in the first third of the list. But VW will open them each time a t a certain position. AFAIR List Position seems to be always the same, but feels very randomly. Not at the Top or at the bottom. Maybe in the middle or at the last created Class or something other. And I think I have similar experiences with Resource Manager Lists. Like when I go through all my "Wood Material Classes" and want to assign a special Wood Material to each of them. AFAIR The Icon list also opens at a random place each time and not somewhere around my last chosen Wood. Or when I replace a Material, list will not open around the position of the Material I like to replace but random. But I would have to test that in detail again before ranting. Quote Link to comment
Mark Aceto Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 13 minutes ago, zoomer said: AFAIK In dialogs where I have to assign Classes to something like Parts of a Stair, the Window will be too short for my Class list so it has a scroll bar and allows scroll wheeling navigation - fine Each time such a List Window Opens VW presents a certain position. My Classes of interest are usually in the first third of the list. But VW will open them each time a t a certain position. You can drag to expand that drop down menu (window). It only gets tricky when you move to laptop, and the window extends offscreen. Same with most drop down menus and dialogs. A cue I desperately wish Apple would take from VW for System Prefs. 16 minutes ago, zoomer said: And I think I have similar experiences with Resource Manager Lists. Like when I go through all my "Wood Material Classes" and want to assign a special Wood Material to each of them. This is something I have discussed with VW. It's super annoying to have every single Light or Truss expanded, and have to infinitely scroll. Some of them remember when you collapse them, and some don't. 1 Quote Link to comment
Tom W. Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 What annoys me is when class drop-downs don't expand laterally when you expand a dialog box. So with long class names in say the Door + Window Settings dialogs (probably others as well) all the classes can look identical + you're forced to click on each drop-down one by one to identify them. Probably not strictly relevant to this discussion sorry but it prompted the thought 1 Quote Link to comment
Mark Aceto Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 11 minutes ago, Tom W. said: What annoys me is when class drop-downs don't expand laterally when you expand a dialog box. So with long class names in say the Door + Window Settings dialogs (probably others as well) all the classes can look identical + you're forced to click on each drop-down one by one to identify them. Probably not strictly relevant to this discussion sorry but it prompted the thought You can't resize the menu window? Quote Link to comment
Mark Aceto Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 14 minutes ago, Tom W. said: What annoys me is when class drop-downs don't expand laterally when you expand a dialog box. So with long class names in say the Door + Window Settings dialogs (probably others as well) all the classes can look identical + you're forced to click on each drop-down one by one to identify them. Probably not strictly relevant to this discussion sorry but it prompted the thought Or do you mean the column width chaos that ensues when you double click the column border to auto fit the column width like you would in the RM or Nav palette or any app made after 1995? Quote Link to comment
Tom W. Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 1 hour ago, Mark Aceto said: You can't resize the menu window? I mean I would like in the Classes pane to be able to see at glance all the classes each component is assigned to without having to click on the separate drop-downs one by one. Obviously once I click on the drop-down all is revealed but before then it's a bit ambiguous + no amount of dragging is going to help you: Stairs, Railing/Fence objects, Walls/Slabs/Roofs obviously: all of these you can scrutinise all the attribute classes at the same time in a single dialog so perhaps it's only Windows/Doors you have to do it one at time if your class names exceed 19 characters... 3 Quote Link to comment
Mark Aceto Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 6 minutes ago, Tom W. said: I mean I would like in the Classes pane to be able to see at glance all the classes each component is assigned to without having to click on the separate drop-downs one by one. Obviously once I click on the drop-down all is revealed but before then it's a bit ambiguous + no amount of dragging is going to help you: Stairs, Railing/Fence objects, Walls/Slabs/Roofs obviously: all of these you can scrutinise all the attribute classes at the same time in a single dialog so perhaps it's only Windows/Doors you have to do it one at time if your class names exceed 19 characters... Ah... yes. This just came up in a user group meeting last night. 100% agree. In the meantime, a workaround is to create a worksheet to manage that outside of the dialog. Worksheets make great bandaids for where the interface falls short. 3 Quote Link to comment
Tom W. Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 On 7/15/2022 at 8:03 PM, Tom W. said: I mean I would like in the Classes pane to be able to see at glance all the classes each component is assigned to without having to click on the separate drop-downs one by one. Obviously once I click on the drop-down all is revealed but before then it's a bit ambiguous + no amount of dragging is going to help you: Stairs, Railing/Fence objects, Walls/Slabs/Roofs obviously: all of these you can scrutinise all the attribute classes at the same time in a single dialog so perhaps it's only Windows/Doors you have to do it one at time if your class names exceed 19 characters... I've found another offender: Structural Members. 1 Quote Link to comment
Mark Aceto Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 5 minutes ago, Tom W. said: I've found another offender: Structural Members. And that one users can't even resized the dialog. I'm wondering though... when you assign classes that aren't the default placeholder, are they still getting cropped? My assumption is yes. 1 Quote Link to comment
Tom W. Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 1 minute ago, Mark Aceto said: when you assign classes that aren't the default placeholder, are they still getting cropped? Yes in the screenshot the cut plane member is my own class. The fact VW doesn't even let you see their own classes in full is a bit bizarre. At least in the door/window example you can do that... I wonder why they didn't go down the Stairs/Railing Fence route for Structural Members + have this kind of dialog: Here though you can't resize the dialog either which is weird. To see the full pane without scrolling side to side. All feels a bit inconsistent... 4 Quote Link to comment
Popular Post Mark Aceto Posted July 21, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted July 21, 2022 4 hours ago, Tom W. said: Yes in the screenshot the cut plane member is my own class. The fact VW doesn't even let you see their own classes in full is a bit bizarre. At least in the door/window example you can do that... I wonder why they didn't go down the Stairs/Railing Fence route for Structural Members + have this kind of dialog: Here though you can't resize the dialog either which is weird. To see the full pane without scrolling side to side. All feels a bit inconsistent... This day in history: the stair tool was used as an example of how something could be improved. 2 3 Quote Link to comment
line-weight Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 There's a similar issue in the resource manager where the names get truncated*. In this example the bit of the name that distinguishes one texture from another gets chopped off so the only way to find out what each texture is, is to hover the cursor over each one. NB even in the large thumbnail at right the name gets truncated in the default layout - you can resize that portion of the dialogue but why should I have to? There's plenty of space to allow the name to take up more than one line if it wants to. Writing this post makes me realise there are a couple of other modes you can select which do show the name in full but again why do I have adjust things to fix something that doesn't work when the RM opens in its default mode? Quote Link to comment
Tom W. Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 8 minutes ago, line-weight said: the only way to find out what each texture is, is to hover the cursor over each one. Or use Thumbnails List View 2 Quote Link to comment
Boh Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 16 hours ago, line-weight said: There's a similar issue in the resource manager where the names get truncated* This is why with the RM I tend to use list view. 1 Quote Link to comment
shorter Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 If I can offer a bit of advice here... Always base bespoke class libraries on industry standards, and set up mapping tables and use the class mapping command to convert from bespoke to industry standards. If you start a class library on a whim, it gets out of hand very quickly and becomes increasingly difficult to manage when you need to issue compliant classes. The ISO19650 class libraries we have recently published on this forum are for those who find it easier to work using the classes they will export with. However, the logic of the Uniclass tables is quite straight-forward; it's based on level of detail, so build class libraries that relate to LOD, but try not to vary too far from the categories given in Uniclass 2015 if you ultimately intend to export classes in compliance with Uniclass 2015 and ISO19650. If CiSfb is your bag, then ditto. Quote Link to comment
mtndrew Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 (edited) On 10/6/2020 at 4:34 AM, line-weight said: I keep my classes in 3 basic categories: 2d-xxx-xxx Materials-xxx-xxx Objects-xxx-xxx I like how you think. I am a small-scale design/builder who is the only one working on design files. Been a VW user since 2009 and still struggle with intuitive class structure. Would you be willing to share your exploded class categories @line-weight? Edited January 31 by mtndrew 1 Quote Link to comment
Pat Stanford Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 The script in the linked thread creates a VW Worksheet with an alphabetical list of the classes in the file. The post above has one that exports them in the Nav Palette default order. The one at the bottom is dynamic, so you can't move it into a file without classes, but it also shows the attribute colors of the class. 1 Quote Link to comment
line-weight Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 3 hours ago, mtndrew said: I like how you think. I am a small-scale design/builder who is the only one working on design files. Been a VW user since 2009 and still struggle with intuitive class structure. Would you be willing to share your exploded class categories @line-weight? Well, here's some screenshots of what they look like for a project I'm working on at the moment. NB I put an *asterix at the beginning of all my own classes, so that they stay at the top of the list and I try and ignore the various junk classes at the bottom - all classes with no asterix are ones that VW automatically makes, many of which I'm not entirely sure what they do but I just leave them alone. They are always due a bit of tidying up. But what you see here is my current working balance of chaos/organisation. In general I find this system works ok. I make intensive use of the "2d" and "materials" classes and less use of the "objects" ones. If I were starting again from scratch there would be some things I'd do slightly differently. I am not yet using VW's own "materials" feature. At some point soon I will decide whether to switch to that, in which case my whole classing approach might change somewhat. 1 Quote Link to comment
shorter Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 20 hours ago, line-weight said: Well, here's some screenshots of what they look like for a project I'm working on at the moment. NB I put an *asterix at the beginning of all my own classes, so that they stay at the top of the list and I try and ignore the various junk classes at the bottom - all classes with no asterix are ones that VW automatically makes, many of which I'm not entirely sure what they do but I just leave them alone. They are always due a bit of tidying up. But what you see here is my current working balance of chaos/organisation. In general I find this system works ok. I make intensive use of the "2d" and "materials" classes and less use of the "objects" ones. If I were starting again from scratch there would be some things I'd do slightly differently. I am not yet using VW's own "materials" feature. At some point soon I will decide whether to switch to that, in which case my whole classing approach might change somewhat. oh the delights of non-compliance! 😉 Quote Link to comment
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