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Davide

VW 10

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Giovanni,

There are a lot of issues involved in those features. We definatly want to implement all of them, but we have to prioritize based on what we can deliver in a reasonable amount of time.

Remember, the planning work that went into VW 10 all happened at the time of the 9.0 release. We know these features are important to our users but major changes take a signifigant amount of time.

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Pricing is not exactly readily displayed on the site. I have to enter a serial number to find out what the upgrade price is?

Donald

PSThere are many appealing things in the feature set. Has the testing of this version been about the same, in terms of intensity, as the VW9 release was?

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Donald,

Since we had a number of different industry series products available for version 9, there are different costs to upgrade depending on what you already own.

Your serial number (actually the first 5 digits) tells us what you have now.

Otherwise we would just have to put up a straight spreadsheet with all the possible upgrade paths.

Would you perfer this type of an approach?

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$450 to upgrade VWA & Renderworks 9.5 to 10 -

YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING!!

Even though I paid for VW9, 8.5.2 continues to look just fine to me.

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<<Otherwise we would just have to put up a straight spreadsheet with all the possible upgrade paths.

Would you perfer this type of an approach?>>

Yes, I think that would be more straightforward. Pricing should be out in the open. If you are going to have different prices depending on version currently used, (i.e. if VW8 users pay more than VW9 users do---like auto-des-sys does) then those differences would be of interest, I think. For one thing, if NA's pricing policy is changing, long time users might like to see how. Some may prefer to upgrade say every other version, as I do with some software.

As for my own case, yes I can work with the serial number.

Thanks,

Donald

PS

What about the testing?

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i am an Architect using Vectorworks 9.5.2 on Mac OS 9.2 & OSX 10.1.5 and have been struggling with recurring weirdness and problems switching between OS's and the performance of VWKS 9.5. I have been frustrated with VWKS 9.5 with regards to getting a stable and productive program under OSX. I Have emailed tech support several times in the last month regarding problems with no contact back. Several problems arise when using files constructed on both Mac OS's and switching between. I won't get into the individual problems here but I thought Nemetcheck would be better at "working out all the bugs" in their program and now I see that they have come out with a new version VWKS 10 without having a really stable version of VWKS 9.5. My question is this.

Why should I upgrade to VWKS 10 when Nemetcheck, I feel, does not have a fully stable version of VWKS 9.5. ?

I fell that VWKS 8 was much more stable and reliable than 9.5.

Will VWKS 10 be better than VWKS 9.5 in regards to issues of stablity and usability or is it more headaces for a few more bells and whistles?

I still have do not use OSX for production because of various problems not associated with OSX but with VWKS 9.5. and it's implementation under OSX ( all my other programs seem to work just fine). Additionally, I am using OSX 10.1.5 and have not upgraded to 10.2 because VWKS only just came out with VWKS 9.5.3 beta which they only recommend for 10.2. That's a beta version not even a real version.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,

Kurt Magness, Architect

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Hi Donald,

It's hard to come up with quantitative evidence that VectorWorks 10 is better tested by some measure than was VectorWorks 9. Quantitative quality statistics are complicated by the reality that there only has to be a single bug in the most inopportune place to render an application unusable for a given user.

I can say that we have heard from internal testers and beta testers alike from the beginning of the VectorWorks 10 testing cycle through to release that VectorWorks 10 is much more stable and reliable than 9.0.x was at release. I also personally believe that it is more robust overall than any other VectorWorks or MiniCAD release. I'm quite confident that 10 will be well received in this respect.

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Hi Kurt,

We have taken your sentiment to heart in the development of VectorWorks 10 - really listening to where people are having problems with the application and devoting resources to fixing longstanding problem areas. I can't say whether your concerns were addressed as they are not specifically cited, but I can say that we have tried to focus effort in a way that people like you - fans of VectorWorks 8 - will notice and appreciate. Our money back guarantee applies to buyers of our upgrade as well as new customers. Give VW 10 a try and see if it meets your expectations.

I think your approach to 10.2 is very sensible. Apple is being much more aggressive than in the past with regard to adding functionality in their incremental OS releases. This inevitably reduces the stability of the OS, and you are making the right decision to let the dust settle before adopting 10.2.

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Hi Chris,

You are correct in your impression that we have made a lot of changes for VW 10 and even so, we have not implemented every wish. We still have a long list remaining. We did carefully match the outstanding wishes with available implementation resources and came up with a package which addressed a bunch of longstanding requests. Wishes like ODBC integration have not been forgotten, but thet have less appeal for our average user than some of the other areas in which we invested effort. That's not to say that we're writing them off - just that they didn't make the cut this time around.

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By quickly reading about what's new in VW10, it seems to have a lot of great new feauturesbut, but:no improvement on the Spreadsheet/scheduling?no improvement(clipping, viewport) on the Workgroup referencing?

These 2 features alone would have made the program better then all the other together.

I'm really sad, after all the requests about them?

frown.gif" border="0

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Very interesting reading and responses. It shows that folks are still having issues but continue to use this valuable software over others. I, for one, count myself as keeping VWA, but I have a few concerns with this latest announcement:

I received your press release regarding VW 10. Exciting, but pricey. However, since we are just now making the transition (albeit cautiously) to OS X on the Mac, I am more interested in the NON-BETA version of VWA 9.5.3 alluded to on your web pages and update links around the Web.

We are preparing to buy new Macs and they all come preinstalled with Jaguar (OS X). That?s enough of an expense without having to pay another $250? per license on top just to get it to work with OS X 10.2.

Conspicuously missing from your promotional literature online and in the newsletter is any mention of OS X, Jaguar and compatibility for this upcoming mid-October release. Can you please expand in more detail?

Thanks in advance for your candid responses and not talking around the issues.

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Here's what's happening.

VW, in trying to make MiniCAD more powerful

(not Mini anymore) developed a lot of muscles

without a strong mind: many idiosyncrasies.

i.e. doors don?t really talk to schedules

or workgroup references don?t bring you just what you need,

or layer links are cool but hard to manipulate and so on and on,

scalable layers are great but an hassle when you need to work

quickly and select thought them, and so on and on.

So old users got used to work around these issues, and were expecting

a change in philosophy more then smoother things.

A change in philosophy that would have made VW 10 able to compete with any CAD

no matter project size.

See Matthew, I understand time/cost factors, but again

those 2 items (clipping ref /view ports, flexible bi-directional scheduling, and maybe real 3d/2d integration) would have opened wider markets.

Now the old users are partially disappointed because of the no-revolution (even though it seems from the new features list that VW 10 will definitely improve production and overall quality)

The new one will find a less-weird-very-powerful-cool to use-program -for the?price

but no full size CAD. And being version 10,(I know it?s just banal psychology) it should have been full size.

All in all I think, price is not crazy (check others), and features seem great (especially 3d and presentation but explain that to production obsessed ex-AC ?thickness -less line on black background? users).

More then a new version, a big upgrade which was needed.

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I have three concerns:

1. What's going to happen with 9? Support, stable version or is it a dead duck?

2. What about an upgrade just for the9.5.? 3D power pack?

3. I used VW 8.x for two years and paid $225.00 for an incredible upgrade,

now after 9 months of using 9.x it costs $250.00 for an okeydokey upgrade.

Did somebody break a window?

MB

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I can affirm that bringing Acad view port-like capabilities to VWA would make a big difference in production work relative to elevations, building sections, wall sections and details. But I can appreciate the programming hoops this will require, especially in light of the fact that Mac OS X doesn't have everything under the hood that OS 9 has, and developing for multiple platforms will require additional resources.

As far as cost of upgrading to VW 10 is concerned, VW is still the best bang for the buck I've seen. For comparison, check out the costs of Autocad Architectural Desktop and the training and IT support/configuration it takes to really make that software work.

All the best,

Philip S. Wheelock, Jr. AIA

Wheelock Associates Architects

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Irving,

VectorWorks 10 is fully compatible and tested with Jaguar. 9.5.3 will go final in the near future to provide a release level solution for Jaguar users.

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Marc,

On a tech support end, we will continue to fully support the version 9 product.

[big Grin]

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A couple of things that i havent seen in the whats new section....

Can you rotate a 2D view so that it is parallel to an object?

Can you apply tracking/intercharacter spacing to text?

These points along with the exporting to Cinmea 4D option will be vital to many people before upgrading.

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I'm an architect. The lack of a dynamic update (link-Acad like viewport) to a building section in this software is killing me. Buildings are not designed in a linear fashion where plan occurs first then, section. This feature is what makes Archicad appealing. I had hoped that this feature would have made it into 10. I can imagine new users would be drawn to Archicad because of this powerful tool.

Unfortunately it sounds like nothing substantial has been done to improve the juvenile worksheets (go look at Excel). ODBC would have saved us thousands of hours of time importing specifications text, dwg files etc(again go look at plotmaker in Archicad).

You will have to excuse me that I will not be upgrading to 10 anytime in the near future. I, like I imagine many users, still have scabs from the burns left by thousands of lost billable hours beta testing version 9.0 . You will have to find a way to prove to us that this release is stable. While the cost of this software is a deal, perhaps you would reconsider upgrade pricing for purchasers of 9.0. It might help smooth over relations with an angry and frustrated group of users.

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JNR,

We agree with you that the ability to link sections of the drawing with dynamically updating "viewports" is an important direction for us, but it was too big a project for the length of our VectorWorks 10 development cycle.

We focused instead on improving VectorWorks in ways such that your bad experience with VectorWorks 9 will not be repeated - including overall quality and numerous usability features. I think you'll see that VectorWorks 10 receives a warm reception for what it does well even if we haven't addressed all outstanding user wishes.

If by ODBC you are referring to the ability to drop hot-linked excel spreadsheets into your drawing, I think your terminology is somewhat inaccurate - OLE or embedded objects is Microsoft's description. We are unable to currently support that capability on the Mac (as is Graphisoft in ArchiCad) so we have not developed it.

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As an older user, I should mention that Giovanni speaks eloquently but not for me.

I've seen a number of MC/VW upgrades and there are always things I can use and things I cannot.

I do not need at all for the program to be like autocad and archicad. The other night I saw another demonstration of VWA, and it looks to me still, like an autocad wannabe. I don't see how people can work efficiently and get things done with programs like those---so much goes into the organizational structure of the working file and managing that. And you'd better like the scheme because it all comes apart in the hands of deviants. So in the effort to make things simple, they have grown intricate.

The basic VW package, on the other hand, seems to me to be such a versatile tool. Powerful and flexible. Those characteristics are what distinguished MC in the first place. Really, if I wanted a program like autocad why would I use VW? It is much easier to find employees who already know AC. Most of the engineers already use it too.

Ofcourse, I don't want to use a program like AC. I have always wanted a program that let me do things and stayed out of the way. VW has done that far better than anything else I am aware of.

When I hear that effort has been spent on making VW10 smoother and faster and easier to use efficiently, I think someone is playing the right tune. That has always been the core virtue of MC/VW in my opinion. It is what sets it apart from the others.

I understand what NNA is saying about features and the resources available for a given release. That is nothing new or troublesome.

I may wait for the "dust to settle" of VW10 also. But I will certainly upgrade.

I have always enjoyed working with this software. It looks like VW10 will make it, for me, more so.

I am not at all disappointed in advance. It was a pleasant surprise to hear of this release and the improvements it contained.

Donald

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Hello Paul:

Thanks for the diplomatic response. I have a few more questions.

With the release of VWKS 10 are we to asume VWKS 9.5.3 will be the last version of VWKS 9?

Does VWKS 10 take advantage of Motorola's velocity engine/ alti-vec technology ?

Does VWKS 10 take advantage of Apple's dual processor technology ?

If not to the last questions then why not? I started out on Minicad 3 and am a die hard Apple user. Most other high end Apple programs use this technology ( photoshop, for one.) Is it that dificult to implement? Shouldn't NNA respect all us loyal Apple Minicad users?

It's like having a ferrari with a governer on it that's only lets you go 55 mph.

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i have two questions too?

i use at home version 7 and in the office 9.5. I have been waited for the 10 release, i expected two things: a layer and class window, a la Photoshop or illustrator, where i can put some or all off or on, rename, etc; and multiple window support.

Well, a better processor use, in my PowerBook is the whole time the processor use 100%, regardless what i do or not. is the VectorWorks window activ is the Use of the processor 100%, and in a TiBook that can be annoying.

regards. Stbn Pancham?

[ i forgot: a variable Wall tool, i meant, i want to draw directly in 3D or variable wide.]

[ 09-24-2002, 02:01 PM: Message edited by: InstantGlueck ]

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