&^%$#ing doors

[ddcpe]

Was working along with doors in my model and all of a sudden out of nowhere the 2d plan view changed and the opened door leaf with swing is gone and only the jamb shows.  How the hell did I turn it off and where in the name of god do you toggle it back on?  This is the most frustrating tool so far in VW.  Nothing but a giant pain in the ass.

[ddcpe]

So the door leaf is on the NONE class.  I placed the doors on another class and it seems as though the jambs take the active class but the leaf and swing and whatever else stays in the NONE class.  I guess its all in the Symbol properties which its going to take a bunch of time to figure out.  Seems like one should be able to quickly set all the parts of the symbol to take the active class when inserted.  probably a way but I haven't figured it out.

[Pat Stanford]

Based on your several posts this morning, it sounds like you could greatly reduce your frustration by looking at some of the training at Vectorworks University.  https://university.vectorworks.net. All of it is free.

 

I would recommend the Vectorworks Getting Started Seminar https://university.vectorworks.net/course/view.php?id=1934

 

and the Vectorworks Architect Essentials Seminar https://university.vectorworks.net/course/view.php?id=1936

 

The two combined will take you about 4 hours, but will save you a huge amount of time and aggravation over the weeks/months/years.

[bcd]

Often, probably more often than not, when something is missing in a drawing it comes down to a Class being set to invisible.

[Tom W.]

11 hours ago, ddcpe said:

Was working along with doors in my model and all of a sudden out of nowhere the 2d plan view changed and the opened door leaf with swing is gone and only the jamb shows.  How the hell did I turn it off and where in the name of god do you toggle it back on?  This is the most frustrating tool so far in VW.  Nothing but a giant pain in the ass.

 

There is an auto-generated Door class called 'Sills' + it sounds like that has been turned off.

[Pat Stanford]

And similarly, the other autogenerated class that effects walls/doors/windows is called Ceiling-Main.

 

The original idea was that for a plan view you would turn off Ceiling Main (that controls the wall lines in doors/windows) and turn on the Sill class (that controls the door swing.

 

Then to generate a reflected ceiling plan you would turn off the Sills and turn on Ceiling Main.

 

 

[ddcpe]

Thanks for all the feedback.  I've done the courses but none of it sticks.  I'm kind a thick-headed hands-on learner for this kind of thing.

[Christiaan]

14 hours ago, ddcpe said:

Thanks for all the feedback.  I've done the courses but none of it sticks.  I'm kind a thick-headed hands-on learner for this kind of thing.

I'm similar, but what I find is that the training material is very useful AFTER I've done the hands-on.

[Inspectorjack]

19 hours ago, ddcpe said:

Thanks for all the feedback.  I've done the courses but none of it sticks.  I'm kind a thick-headed hands-on learner for this kind of thing.

GM.  Your frustration radiates from your posts and I wanted to reply all day yesterday but I'm not logged in on mobile.  While I'm grateful for the VW Uni resources they tend to be so generic they're often not as useful as they might be.  Nor are they very organized in my opinion.  So I use Youtube a lot.  The good stuff can be hard to weed out but there are several very useful presenters.  I have yet to do it myself but I suggest one on one training with someone like Jonathan Pickup or J Reeves - although I wish there was a feet-inches-primary user but I don't know of one.  

[ddcpe]

9 hours ago, Christiaan said:

I'm similar, but what I find is that the training material is very useful AFTER I've done the hands-on.

Yep. It usually works that way for me.  I have to pound my thick skull against the wall a few times before the tutorial will attach to my little gray cells.

 

Cheers

[line-weight]

20 minutes ago, ddcpe said:

I have to pound my thick skull against the wall a few times

 

Don't worry - this is a standard part of using vectorworks even when you know it quite well.

[line-weight]

The issue that the OP describes here - that

On 10/15/2023 at 7:18 AM, ddcpe said:

So the door leaf is on the NONE class.  I placed the doors on another class and it seems as though the jambs take the active class but the leaf and swing and whatever else stays in the NONE class.  I guess its all in the Symbol properties which its going to take a bunch of time to figure out.  Seems like one should be able to quickly set all the parts of the symbol to take the active class when inserted.  probably a way but I haven't figured it out.

 

Are you sure this is what happened? I can't replicate it, if I just insert a standard door.

 

The settings you need - I think - are in the 2D visualisation pane of the settings for the door object. You can choose there what determines the attributes for the various parts (in a 2d plan view) and whether they are controlled individually by class or by the overall object attributes.

 

You'll often find with this kind of thing that you have to trace what determines something's attributes back through multiple settings that refer to each other in a chain. The thing is set by the container object's attributes, and the container attributes are controlled by a class, and the class's attributes are X and Y etc. This can get quite confusing, especially once you start using things like styles. I find it's best to take a deep breath, try to remain calm and trace this chain back to the setting you need to adjust.

 

It's also useful to try and get clear in your head what "attributes" actually are (they are basically the things you see in the attributes palette, unsurprisingly, but somehow it can still be confusing). And keep a close eye on the "attributes" palette whenever you are investigating an object because it's easy to end up with some attributes set by class rather than per object, or vice versa, or a mixture of both, without intending to.

[shorter]

it always helps to post the file here for someone with too much time on their hands to have a look at it... 😉

 

I would always suggest opening a completely new, fresh blank file, i.e. not one of the VW templates, and repeating what you did to see if you can replicate the issue.

Edited October 16, 2023 by shorter

[shorter]

ps  from the looks of your other posts, I suspect you have created a door style, with just the jambs showing, ie. a cased opening, and this is now the styled used by your doors.

 

Or, you are not in Top/Plan view.

 

That said, I did experience an issue with doors a while back that is similar to your problem.  Cannot recall how I fixed it though.

[ddcpe]

5 hours ago, line-weight said:

 

Don't worry - this is a standard part of using vectorworks even when you know it quite well.

Yeah, I guess I'm "quite well" getting to know that :).  Cheers.

[mike m oz]

On 10/15/2023 at 2:18 PM, ddcpe said:

So the door leaf is on the NONE class.  I placed the doors on another class and it seems as though the jambs take the active class but the leaf and swing and whatever else stays in the NONE class.

Three things to check:

1)   Is your None Class set to visible on your design layers and your Sheet Layer Viewports?  The None Class needs to be always visible.

2)  Is your None Class pen thickness set to 0.00?  If it is then that is why you can't see the leaf and swing linework.

3)  Is your pen colour set to the same colour as your screen background?  That would make the leaf and swing 'invisible'.

[ddcpe]

2 hours ago, mike m oz said:

Three things to check:

1)   Is your None Class set to visible on your design layers and your Sheet Layer Viewports?  The None Class needs to be always visible.

2)  Is your None Class pen thickness set to 0.00?  If it is then that is why you can't see the leaf and swing linework.

3)  Is your pen colour set to the same colour as your screen background?  That would make the leaf and swing 'invisible'.

It was set invisible then I changed it.  That's how I figured as part of a symbol it is buried on the none class and doesn't change even though the symbol attributes are set to "by class" that is active when the symbol is inserted.  I found this out with another symbol (drawing label).

[line-weight]

6 hours ago, ddcpe said:

It was set invisible then I changed it.  That's how I figured as part of a symbol it is buried on the none class and doesn't change even though the symbol attributes are set to "by class" that is active when the symbol is inserted.  I found this out with another symbol (drawing label).

 

It should change per the overall door object class/attributes if you choose "by object" in the 2d visualisation pane in the settings for the door object.

[mike m oz]

On 10/17/2023 at 10:52 AM, ddcpe said:

It was set invisible then I changed it.  That's how I figured as part of a symbol it is buried on the none class and doesn't change even though the symbol attributes are set to "by class" that is active when the symbol is inserted.  I found this out with another symbol (drawing label).

 

The None Class is the equivalent of the 0 Layer in Autocad.  You need to have it visible all the time including in every Sheet Layer and Design Layer Viewport. It also needs to have a pen thickness and a visible pen colour.

[line-weight]

3 hours ago, mike m oz said:

 

The None Class is the equivalent of the 0 Layer in Autocad.  You need to have it visible all the time including in every Sheet Layer and Design Layer Viewport. It also needs to have a pen thickness and a visible pen colour.

 

Is this something that's explicitly stated in VW documentation or "getting started" guides that new users are likely to read/watch?

[mike m oz]

On 10/19/2023 at 12:29 AM, line-weight said:

Is this something that's explicitly stated in VW documentation or "getting started" guides that new users are likely to read/watch?

 

My observation from years of experience helping people sort out Vw problems.

I've seen more than a few users tie themselves up in knots by setting their None Class to invisible or having its line weight set to zero or using a pen colour that matches the colour of their background.

[line-weight]

1 minute ago, mike m oz said:

 

My observation from years of experience helping people sort out Vw problems.

I've seen more than a few users tie themselves up in knots by setting their None Class to invisible or having its line weight set to zero or using a pen colour that matches the colour of their background.

 

Yeah, I'm not questioning that it's a good idea - my point is more about whether there's a route for new users to find this out themselves.

 

Because people are often advised to do things like watch the VW university guides, but I think it's possible to go through all those tutorials etc and still fall into traps like the invisible "none" class one.

[line-weight]

Just now, line-weight said:

 

Yeah, I'm not questioning that it's a good idea - I agree with you - my point is more about whether there's a route for new users to find this out themselves.

 

Because people are often advised to do things like watch the VW university guides, but I think it's possible to go through all those tutorials etc and still fall into traps like the invisible "none" class one.

 

[Inspectorjack]

One of the 1st things I do is create a generic catch-all class I call "non-plot" to put things in that I don't want to see in viewports.

[mike m oz]

55 minutes ago, Inspectorjack said:

One of the 1st things I do is create a generic catch-all class I call "non-plot" to put things in that I don't want to see in viewports.

 

The Non-Plot Class is created by both Door and Window Objects.