How do I set 'New Classes' default attribute?

[hollister design Studio]

Somehow my new class defaults got set to magenta background and 0.05 line weight.

How do I reset to my new class preferences (or at least not magenta!)?

 

[Tom W.]

You maybe need to reset your default attributes in the Attributes Palette...?

[hollister design Studio]

@Tom W. that's the first thing I did but it made no difference.

 

There must be setting somewhere else?

[Tom W.]

So when you click on 'Use Default Attributes' in the Attributes Palette it's definitely not showing the pink colour?

[Andy Broomell]

I wish Vectorworks would make it clearer that there are "default attributes" which are the attributes in the palette with nothing selected, then there are also the "Default Attributes" which are a mysteriously stored set of attributes that you can save and recall at any point by using the little flyout menu. (I find this ability to be a bit esoteric and rarely used).

 

I would vote for changing it so that new classes use the current default attributes in the palette, rather than the "Default Attributes" which are often unknown to the user.

[hollister design Studio]

@Andy Broomell this cleared it up for me. thank you.

 

@Tom W.  Oddly, I had to do it twice!

I did it once (clicked on the triple dots and clicked "use defaults" with nothing selected) and my new class came out again with Magenta.

I was just typing to say that "that didn't work"... but I thought I had better try one more time before making a fool of myself.

 

The second time the class came out with NO magenta! Thanks!

[Jeff Prince]

2 hours ago, Andy Broomell said:

I wish Vectorworks would make it clearer that there are "default attributes" which are the attributes in the palette with nothing selected, then there are also the "Default Attributes" which are a mysteriously stored set of attributes that you can save and recall at any point by using the little flyout menu. (I find this ability to be a bit esoteric and rarely used).

 

I would vote for changing it so that new classes use the current default attributes in the palette, rather than the "Default Attributes" which are often unknown to the user.

 

Wow, I never knew this until you mentioned it.  What a bizarre "feature".

[E|FA]

3 hours ago, Andy Broomell said:

I wish Vectorworks would make it clearer that there are "default attributes" which are the attributes in the palette with nothing selected, then there are also the "Default Attributes" which are a mysteriously stored set of attributes that you can save and recall at any point by using the little flyout menu. (I find this ability to be a bit esoteric and rarely used).

 

I would vote for changing it so that new classes use the current default attributes in the palette, rather than the "Default Attributes" which are often unknown to the user.

Who knew?  Does anyone have a workflow that uses the Use Attributes flyout as it is working now?  I never touched them, but assumed that it was a quick way to set and use the attributes showing in the palette with nothing selected.  Meaning, if an object was selected, and then Use Default Attributes was chosen, the object attributes would be changed to the "defaults".  And if an object was selected and Set Default Attributes was chosen, then the defaults would be changed to match the selected object.  Basically, this would be the eyedropper tool being used for the default attributes palette.  To me, that seems like the expected behavior and what I would suggest it is changed to.

 

Is this a bug or working as designed?

Edited March 29, 2023 by E|FA

[Tom W.]

6 hours ago, hollister design Studio said:

@Tom W.  Oddly, I had to do it twice!

I did it once (clicked on the triple dots and clicked "use defaults" with nothing selected) and my new class came out again with Magenta.

I was just typing to say that "that didn't work"... but I thought I had better try one more time before making a fool of myself.

 

The second time the class came out with NO magenta! Thanks!

 

Cool! My understanding is that with no objects selected, clicking on 'Use Defaults' serves to reveal the 'Default' attributes which may be hidden behind whatever attributes the palette is currently set to (i.e. the 'default' attributes that Andy refers to). So for example, you could have your Attributes Palette set to 'Make All Attributes By Class' with one set of attributes displaying yet when you create a new class that class will use whatever the 'Default' attributes are + you will only see those attributes by clicking on 'Use Defaults'. 

 

Thoroughly confusing + not very useful.

 

3 hours ago, E|FA said:

Meaning, if an object was selected, and then Use Default Attributes was chosen, the object attributes would be changed to the "defaults".  And if an object was selected and Set Default Attributes was chosen, then the defaults would be changed to match the selected object.  Basically, this would be the eyedropper tool being used for the default attributes palette.  To me, that seems like the expected behavior and what I would suggest it is changed to.

 

I think this is exactly how it's working? It's just that like Andy says, there is no way to tell when you look at the Attributes Palette whether the attributes displayed are the Default or whether they've been overridden i.e. you've changed them to something else but not set them as the Default. You can tell if they're the class attributes because you get the 'By Style' arrow but perhaps there should be something else there to show it's a Default attribute...? Saying that I always have my attributes by class + don't pay much attention to what the Default is set to...

[E|FA]

11 hours ago, Tom W. said:

I think this is exactly how it's working?

I don't think so, but I could be wrong.  It looks like there are two "defaults" one can use.  One created by the settings when nothing is selected, and the other by using the flyout menu selection.  The last line in the video was red by default when drawn, then changed to blue using the other default.

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by E|FA

[Pat Stanford]

My quick testing shows:

 

Set Default Attributes stores the current settings for the Attributes Palette.

 

With an object selected Use Default Attributes sets the attributes of that object to the default but does not change the settings of the Attributes Palette.

 

With no object selected Use Default Attributes changes the settings of the Attributes Palette to those saved a Default Attributes.

 

I have filed a bug to get either the documentation or the function changed so they both match.

 

[hollister design Studio]

I'm so glad I'm not the only one that was confused by this "no object selected" default attributes and "Set Default Attributes" default attributes settings.

 

I've had some real head scratches with this in the past.

[Tom W.]

2 hours ago, E|FA said:

I don't think so, but I could be wrong.  It looks like there are two "defaults" one can use.  One created by the settings when nothing is selected, and the other by using the flyout menu selection.  The last line in the video was red by default when drawn, then changed to blue using the other default.

 

 

 

Thanks @E|FA maybe we're talking about different things: to me what you demonstrate in the video is everything working as expected as per @Andy Broomell's comments re 'default attributes' + 'Default Attributes'. It would be less confusing if there was something in the Attributes Palette which flagged up whether it's the 'default' or the 'Default' attributes you're looking at... 

[E|FA]

Hopefully VW's treatment of @Pat Stanford's bug submittal will clarify whether this is working as designed or is a bug, and can update the behavior and/or the naming and help files.  In the meantime this thread should help people at least understand the actual behavior.  Thanks @Andy Broomell for pointing this out.

[Pat Stanford]

The next time there is a rebuild of the Help system (Maybe 2023SP5, definitely 2024) the help for Set Default Attributes will be changed to:

 

 

So it appears that the behavior is correct and the documentation was incorrect.

 

HTH

[E|FA]

If I understand this correctly, the expected use case is that you have "permanent" Default Attributes that are saved from the menu.  You can then make sure nothing is selected, change the attributes in the attribute palette to have "temporary" default attributes which become active.  When you're done with the temporary defaults, you can change back to the permanent ones in the menu which will also change any selected objects to the saved Defaults.  Once it's understood, I'm guessing it will be useful for some.

 

OR you can ignore that the menu even exists and always set your default attributes when nothing's selected. 

 

OR ignore the nothing selected technique and only use the menu to set default attributes.

 

OR use Classes.

Edited March 30, 2023 by E|FA

[Pat Stanford]

Or use a Saved View to set the attributes

 

or use a Script to set the attributes

 

Or use a Marionette to set the attributes

 

7 ways to accomplish anything in VW. 😉 😂

[hollister design Studio]

2 minutes ago, E|FA said:

OR you can ignore the menu even exists, and always set your default attributes when nothing's selected. 

 

The problem I had is that I somehow, without trying or even knowing about this  "permanent" Default Attribute, changed it to Fill with Magenta

 

And since there where no obvious clues as to what was going on, and I did not know this existed, and since it really is not obvious OR all that intuitive, I had no idea what was turning my new classes magenta.

Thankfully this forum exists, and people like @Pat Stanford, @Tom W., and @Andy Broomell (and you!) exist, and you all helped me figure out what the heck was going on.

 

Thank you!

 

 

Also - this "permanent" Default Attribute is what sets newly created class attributes - not your current active "temporary" Default Attributes... and that's just odd.

 

[Elite Exhibits]

I love Hollister Design Studio Comment above

     Could be from Mad Magazine - a fill in the blanks essay ?

 

 

 

"The problem I had is that I somehow, without trying or even knowing about  ___________________

Default __________ changed it to ___________. And since there where (sic) no obvious clues as to what was going on, and I did not know __________ existed, and since it really is not obvious OR all that intuitive, I had no idea ________________.

 

 

I agree and am also Thankful for this forum, and people like @Pat Stanford, @Tom W., and @Andy Broomell exist, help me figure out what the heck is going on.

 

Peter