Stop VW from drawing new objects with attributes *not by class* unless we really want it to.

[line-weight]

I have a feeling this has been discussed before but can't find the thread.

 

For some reason, I am always finding that I draw something, in a certain class, and it gets drawn with attributes that are not "by class".

 

In these cases, I don't remember telling VW to do this. I make sure I have all objects deselected, and go to the attributes palette, and choose "make all attributes by class", thinking that this ought to mean that anything I draw from now on, will have all attributes by class, but somehow it doesn't always happen and I'm back in the state where I draw something and it has attributes that are not by class.

 

Like I say, I think I remember this discussion being had before. I'm sure technically it's caused by some kind of user error, but whatever that user error is, it happens all the time.

 

It would be good to have some sort of button to press, to stop it happening.

[Jeff Prince]

Are your classes set up with “use at creation” active?  That should give you the desired behavior regardless of the attribute panel’s settings.

[zoomer]

You set by Class as default by setting Attribute Palette to all by class

while nothing selected.

 

And as Jeff said, all Classes need “use at creation” activated.

 

I do both for all my file templates.

 

 

But I agree it should be the standard behavior.

[kevin.hayward]

3 minutes ago, zoomer said:

all Classes need “use at creation” activated.

 

Why?

 

It's a genuine question. I don't see why there's an extra step. If I have set the default attributes to "by class", or any specific value, why wouldn't VW use those values?

 

And if not, WHERE is VW getting the values it IS using using?

[line-weight]

40 minutes ago, jeff prince said:

Are your classes set up with “use at creation” active? 

Hm. They generally are, although I've just realised that my "none" class isn't. Have changed that.

[line-weight]

18 minutes ago, zoomer said:

You set by Class as default by setting Attribute Palette to all by class

while nothing selected.

 

I feel like I'm constantly doing this - but it still keeps happening.

[Andy Broomell]

1 hour ago, line-weight said:

2 hours ago, jeff prince said:

Are your classes set up with “use at creation” active? 

Hm. They generally are, although I've just realised that my "none" class isn't. Have changed that.

 

I personally don't check "Use at Creation" for the None class, because that means that even if you wanted to draw red rectangles with no fill (for example) and set up the Attributes Palette that way, you could never draw with those specified attributes since "Use at Creation" will override them upon object creation, using the black/white colors from the None class instead.

 

So to your original point, it would be nice to figure out when & why the Attributes Palette is changing itself. That way you can check "Use at Creation" only for the classes where you truly want that (which for me is about 60% of them).

 

And I'll just say that I too have had issues with the Attributes Palette resetting itself, though it feels like it used to happen more frequently than it has lately. I seem to remember hypothesizing that Saved Views were the culprit, or perhaps navigating into and out of symbols? I'm 100% certain that I've experienced the palette resetting itself, but I never once observed the moment it happened.

[line-weight]

32 minutes ago, Andy Broomell said:

 

hypothesizing that Saved Views were the culprit,

Ah yes - that might make sense.

[Elite Exhibits]

FYI

 

I believe that there is a Set Attributes by Class  plug in that might be helpful

 

Peter

[zoomer]

3 hours ago, kevin.hayward said:

 

Why?

 

It's a genuine question. I don't see why there's an extra step. If I have set the default attributes to "by class", or any specific value, why wouldn't VW use those values?

 

And if not, WHERE is VW getting the values it IS using using?

 

 

I usually activate “use at creation” for Classes  ..... for cases like accidentally

having drawn elements on a wrong Class or maybe just wanting to assign them

to another or new Class,

so that I can be sure that they change to the new Class Attributes.

And VW gives a nice warning and asks if you really want to do so.

 

 

And I also do not do this for None Class !

As it is not used by myself but mostly for all library sub elements, where it is useful

that they have Attributes by Object.

 

1 hour ago, Andy Broomell said:

"Use at Creation" only for the classes where you truly want that (which for me is about 60% of them).

 

Exactly.

I also do it only for my main Classes (Material and Container Classes)

 

Edited March 16, 2023 by zoomer

[zoomer]

3 hours ago, line-weight said:

 

I feel like I'm constantly doing this - but it still keeps happening.

 

 

So far I think setting Attributes to by Class - when nothing selected,

stays reliably.

 

So my assumption when it fails ....

It is easy, when working with a few selected Attribute by Object

Elements, that you may have accidentally nothing selected when

changing Attributes. Or forget that something still is selected when

you want to set default Attributes settings instead.

 

I think it is a bit like when missing Objects in Drawing Window.

In 98% it is again just a wrong Class/Layer Assignment/Visibility

Setting combination together with nested Groups, Symbols or

PIO Components.

(Well, at least before VW 2023)

Edited March 16, 2023 by zoomer

[kevin.hayward]

15 hours ago, zoomer said:

I usually activate “use at creation” for Classes  ..... for cases like accidentally

having drawn elements on a wrong Class or maybe just wanting to assign them

to another or new Class,

 

Well, according to the online help:

Quote

 

Applies the graphic attributes displayed in this dialog box when you create an object assigned to this class. If Use at Creation is not selected, apply these attributes to the object later by selecting Class Style from the Attributes palette.

See Setting class attributes for more information about graphic attributes.

 

 

So...? I set the 'current' object attributes in the 'Attributes' palette to 'by Class', but if “use at creation” is checked, VW will override these values with explicit values from the class?

 

Seriously?

[line-weight]

6 hours ago, kevin.hayward said:

So...? I set the 'current' object attributes in the 'Attributes' palette to 'by Class', but if “use at creation” is checked, VW will override these values with explicit values from the class?

 

Seriously?

Surely they are the same thing? So nothing will get overriden as such. Or maybe I've misunderstood what you mean.

[Pat Stanford]

If you draw with a class with Use At Creation checked, any object that you draw will automatically have it's attributes set to By Class.

 

If you don't want this to happen you can uncheck the Use At Creation and then manually set the attributes you want to be by class using the Attributes Palette. The "hamburger" menu at the top has options to set or clear all attributes by class in one step.

 

 

This Use at Creation was added at user request. Many people ALWAYS want their objects to use the attributes of the Class they are in. This accomplishes that with minimal inconvenience for people who don't.

[line-weight]

2 hours ago, Pat Stanford said:

If you draw with a class with Use At Creation checked, any object that you draw will automatically have it's attributes set to By Class.

 

If you don't want this to happen you can uncheck the Use At Creation and then manually set the attributes you want to be by class using the Attributes Palette. The "hamburger" menu at the top has options to set or clear all attributes by class in one step.

 

 

This Use at Creation was added at user request. Many people ALWAYS want their objects to use the attributes of the Class they are in. This accomplishes that with minimal inconvenience for people who don't.

Yup know all that thanks!

The problem is, as explained in my OP, I feel that I am always going to that (tiny) hamburger menu to set all by class, and yet, something is happening that is causing this setting to be lost.

Edited March 17, 2023 by line-weight

[zoomer]

2 hours ago, line-weight said:

I feel that I am always going to that (tiny) hamburger menu to set all by class, and yet, something is happening that is causing this setting to be lost.

 

When I do so, I tripple check nothing is selected by selecting empty space, pressing XX,

checking OIP, .....

And so far for me it was reliable.

 

In cases I found unwanted elements with by Object settings in the past,

I could not swear that I did nothing wrong.

 

Class "use at creation" activated should also work when, say copy/pasted or imported

something and when assigned to such a Class.

That is when usually the VW Warning appears (?)

 

I also usually check my own/main Classes from time to time, by selecting these in

Organization Palette at a time and deactivate and reactivate "use at creation"

or if there seem something strange, set Visibility for these Classes and Select All

to check Attributes Palette to be still in "by Class" Mode.

 

But I think I did not have to do that in the last 2-3 years ?

[Pat Stanford]

Do you have any tool scripts maybe something created using Custom Tool?  That could be resetting the Attributes.

[line-weight]

36 minutes ago, Pat Stanford said:

Do you have any tool scripts maybe something created using Custom Tool?  That could be resetting the Attributes.

The only thing I really use often (all the time actually) is the one you kindly provided in this thread:

 

https://forum.vectorworks.net/index.php?/topic/72040-quickest-way-to-switch-to-opengl-perspective-view/

 

[Pat Stanford]

That one does not change the attributes.  

 

Best I can offer at this time it to keep an eye on the Attributes Palette and see if you can identify what you are doing when it changes.

 

I don't think Saved Views would change it.

 

I am kind of stumped.

[Matt Overton]

Still we could use a central programme setting that defaults  any "by class" set as true as standard. There are literally 100's of times we need to set and check these settings.