fabrica Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 this looks interesting : https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2022/10127/ parametric file seems to be brought straight into Blender. On another note, scaniverse on app store is excellent (and free!) , and the point clouds import nicely into vectorworks. 2 Quote Link to comment
line-weight Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 So it looks like the apple API provides 3d geometry in USD format I don't know anything about USD format (had to google it) but it seems like it allows objects (and surfaces?) to be defined as certain object types. So it can create a file that knows that this is a wall, this is a door, this is a table, etc. Presumably to get it into VW in a "parametric" form, VW needs to take eg each wall object, and convert it to a VW parametric wall object with accurate/useful attributes. In theory that would be very useful for architectural surveys as long as (a) the scanning bit is clever enough to accurately scan and understand multiple rooms, with walls (and floors) in between them (b) what it outputs is reasonably accurate (c) it can actually get transformed into sensible VW parametric objects where appropriate (c) presumably would rely on some work at the VW end. My experience of VW importing other file formats, so far, is pretty bad, usually ending up with a giant mess of non parametric meshes. Has, for example, REVIT import got any better recently? My experience trying it some time ago was that stuff didn't generally get converted to useful parametric objects. If that's still the case, then I suspect the ability to do a lidar scan and have computers do all the tedious work of converting the survey info into a useful model is still some way off. 1 Quote Link to comment
Jeff Prince Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 I recently tried nomad’s LiDAR scan, which I presume uses Apple’s Tool kit. It makes a nice point cloud, but doesn’t hold up against Scaniverse, the latter having the ability to export a variety of formats, including OBJ and USDZ. USDZ is an incredibly useful format that Vectorworks needs to import/export to get with the AR/VR train. It seems all is provided by Apple, developers just need to use the tool kits (pure speculation on my part). The beautiful part of USDZ, they are easily viewed in Apple’s preview, on the iPhone, iPad, or Desktop. This is great during zoom meetings or client review… easy for the non techie person to interact with. 3 Quote Link to comment
zoomer Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 (edited) USD is a relatively new open 3D Exchange Format from Pixar. Looks like it will soon get the standard for exchange between 3D Apps, like IFC is for Building CAD Apps. There was photogrammetry and Lidar Scans since a few years. Which always only produced Point Clouds or complicated Mesh Networks. What I really like about RoomPlan is that the AI will give you still a Mesh Format but in an idealized and simplified way - like our architectural Models. Each Wall is a Cube, each furniture object is a separate cube with its dimensions from its bounding box. So you will get low file size 3D Model similar to our CAD Volume Modeling. But we will see what iOS developers will do with that API. Probably recognize chairs and table models and replace in scan by downloading related 3D Models from the IKEA store and offering alternatives ..... Yes, VW should also support USD import/export ASAP Edited June 8, 2022 by zoomer 2 Quote Link to comment
line-weight Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 1 hour ago, zoomer said: What I really like about RoomPlan is that the AI will give you still a Mesh Format but in an idealized and simplified way - like our architectural Models. Each Wall is a Cube, each furniture object is a separate cube with its dimensions from its bounding box. I wonder what it does when the walls aren't flat, or vertical, as is often the case in old buildings? My human-generated surveys will often record these things but my human brain will then decide whether it matters that the model includes them. Sometimes there's a good reason to pretend a wall is straight ... sometimes it's important that the model shows it's not. Quote Link to comment
zoomer Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 I personally prefer the reduced Model. I would be more interested if it will also even the numbers of the dimensions. If imperfections are important, it is of course better to use the Mesh or Point Cloud options. But I would expect that the App would recognize if a Wal is not 90° in XY or even in slanted in Z (?) But if highest accuracy is needed, a Leica Scanner will be of course more trustworthy than an iPhone or iPad Camera or Lidar. But this is the first App that I see that does an idealization. My Bricscad uses machine learning to create Faces or now even Walls from Point Clouds. This is great. But even more exciting for me is Bricscad's option to close gaps between lines or straighten lines or solids to selected tolerances in angles and or dimensions. This is where it needs either human interaction or machine learning. Just reading and documenting the existing chaos is much easier and already broadly available. 3 Quote Link to comment
Claes Lundstrom Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 19 hours ago, fabrica said: this looks interesting : https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2022/10127/ parametric file seems to be brought straight into Blender. On another note, scaniverse on app store is excellent (and free!) , and the point clouds import nicely into vectorworks. Scaniverse is also my absolute favourite after have tested several similar programs. Scaniverse works very well with VW in several file formats. Using a points style format works best for terrain models. I mostly use OBJ for textured models though. 2 Quote Link to comment
Wood Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 Bumping this VERY old thread. Is there progress on this, and if so is there a tutorial? I've played around with scaniverse with my iPhone, but wasn't ever able to import something useful to vectorworks. My use case is to scan rooms, and particularly overhead obstructions to apply to existing building drawings. I work in spotlight/braceworks. In an ideal world, I would stand in a room, scan it with the phone, and then be able to apply that scan to an existing 3d model of the building. Colors and textures are unimportant, structure location is primary. Thank you! Quote Link to comment
Jeff Prince Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 26 minutes ago, Wood said: Bumping this VERY old thread. Is there progress on this, and if so is there a tutorial? I've played around with scaniverse with my iPhone, but wasn't ever able to import something useful to vectorworks. My use case is to scan rooms, and particularly overhead obstructions to apply to existing building drawings. I work in spotlight/braceworks. In an ideal world, I would stand in a room, scan it with the phone, and then be able to apply that scan to an existing 3d model of the building. Colors and textures are unimportant, structure location is primary. Thank you! There are several threads here on the forum discussing this topic. It's a constantly moving target, but I think photogrammetry is still the best bet for your use case. Some recent innovations with Nomad's scanning utility is promising, but a long way from fulfilling what you require. Your use case is essentially the same as people in the Oil and Gas or Manufacturing industries... lots of small things running through large spaces that need to be accounted for. Those industries relay on high detail LiDAR scanning and/or photogrammetry with very specialized software. Leica and Faro are manufactures of equipment and software to consider. It is highly unlikely a phone is going to do the trick for the vast majority of your use case. Room scanning to .usdz will absolutely fail. Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee Dave Donley Posted March 30, 2023 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted March 30, 2023 LiDAR is available in Nomad and now includes Room Plan, but also the Photos to 3D Model photogrammetry feature was updated recently to use Apple's Object Capture and it works better than before. Many photogrammetry datasets we have around that failed before now succeed. Since for you the room is likely beyond the 5m limit of the iPhone LiDAR I agree photogrammetry would be what you should use. Give Photos to 3D Model a try. https://cloud.vectorworks.net/portal/help/pages/capture-photos-for-3d-models/?app=VECTORWORKS https://cloud.vectorworks.net/portal/help/pages/generate-3d-models-from-photos/?app=IOS_NOMAD 1 Quote Link to comment
Claes Lundstrom Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 9 hours ago, Dave Donley said: LiDAR is available in Nomad and now includes Room Plan, but also the Photos to 3D Model photogrammetry feature was updated recently to use Apple's Object Capture and it works better than before. Many photogrammetry datasets we have around that failed before now succeed. Since for you the room is likely beyond the 5m limit of the iPhone LiDAR I agree photogrammetry would be what you should use. Give Photos to 3D Model a try. https://cloud.vectorworks.net/portal/help/pages/capture-photos-for-3d-models/?app=VECTORWORKS https://cloud.vectorworks.net/portal/help/pages/generate-3d-models-from-photos/?app=IOS_NOMAD The 5 m limitation of Lidar assumes that you are unable to move, but that is not correct. I have always moved when scanning, which admittedly adds some errors to the model, but it does actually work fairly well. One problem is of course vertical scans, where the 5 m limitation is a problem for taller buildings. The enclosed example is way more than 5m. Both photogrammetry and Lidar are therefore usable within their respective boundaries, and they both have their advantages and disadvantages. Scaniverse, which I have mentioned before, now supports both methods. 2 Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee Dave Donley Posted March 31, 2023 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted March 31, 2023 Yes, the reason I mentioned 5m limit is if your use case is a theater you may not be able to reach the ceiling. I guess you could rent a cherry picker and move that up and down while scanning with your phone. 🙂 2 Quote Link to comment
Jeff Prince Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 10 minutes ago, Dave Donley said: Yes, the reason I mentioned 5m limit is if your use case is a theater you may not be able to reach the ceiling. I guess you could rent a cherry picker and move that up and down while scanning with your phone. 🙂 or a drone 🙂 4 Quote Link to comment
mjm Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 Last time I saw a drone inside a theater, the drone went rogue briefly and ran into a scrim, denting it. Very humorous to all but the theater Technical Director. 2 Quote Link to comment
zoomer Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 3 hours ago, Dave Donley said: rent a cherry picker Such a nice word for something we don't even have a, well known, term for ... ("Hubbühne" or such ?) 3 Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee Dave Donley Posted March 31, 2023 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted March 31, 2023 Google translate says aerial work platform is Hubarbeitsbühne 3 Quote Link to comment
zoomer Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 16 minutes ago, Dave Donley said: Hubarbeitsbühne Yes, exactly, what a nice word 🙂 4 Quote Link to comment
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