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I need an architect worthy mouse

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7 hours ago, C.T said:

- Not ergonomic (too flat for your hand palm)

 

Yes I can understand that. I think when I tried the CadMouse I felt like I could get used to resting my hand on the mouse but it also felt like wearing nappies. Holding the mouse only with fingers (which I do with the MM) provides for more fine-grained control; I can rely less on wrist movement.

 

7 hours ago, C.T said:

- Middle mouse tapping doesn't feel natural... it performs as a mouse and touch pad at the same time. 🙄

 

I can understand that too. I'm using a full three-finger click for my middle mouse/panning at the mo and it works great; I certainly don't feel the need to substitute it with a physical mouse button. But if if you're used to a middle button it would take some getting use to.

 

7 hours ago, C.T said:

- Wireless issues: 1. Charging location

 

Ah yes, this is one of those issues where pleasing aesthetic trumped pleasing practicality. Apple often treads this fine line and their mice have often fallen on the former side. This is something that used to annoy the hell out of me but I've become used to it simply by remembering to charge overnight when it needs it. And to honest I kind of appreciate the resulting lack of cabling clutter.

 

7 hours ago, C.T said:

2. In the office we had 6 Macs placed together on one working table. Somehow the mouses got muddled up which made it impossible to start up the computer (since you need the mouse to activate the user login box). There is no way to connect the mouse to the computer when it is wireless, not plug and play....

 

Oh yes, I've had some moments where I thanked my lucky stars I had a wired mouse lying about. I would numbered them on the bottom in that situation I think.

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My main beef with the CadMouse was the physical clicking on the wheel. I don't understand how anybody finds this useful. All it meant for me (compared to the MM) is constantly overrunning the point that I want to zoom to.

Edited by Christiaan

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9 hours ago, _c_ said:

It is somewhat like coriander, there is those who hate it and those who love it.

I also love it.

 

I girlfriend learned to love coriander at about 35, after a lifetime of hating it 😆

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On 2/20/2021 at 1:53 AM, hollister design Studio said:

I really can't imagine how you all get by without a Wacom!

 

I'd love to see a demo of a Wacom being used with VW.

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2 minutes ago, Christiaan said:

I can understand that too. I'm using a full three-finger click for my middle mouse/panning at the mo and it works great; I certainly don't feel the need to substitute it with a physical mouse button. But if if you're used to a middle button it would take some getting use to.

 

I was very happy over many years with these 15€ Microsoft Intellimouse Explorers

that worked on any Surface. Until Microsoft ditched the Mac driver development

and when with some OS X you couldn't assign my side buttons per App anymore.

 

Then I started to try any kind of other Mice, still offering Mac drivers, like Logitechs.

These had the worst Scroll Wheel clicking, for VW's important MMB only View Rotation.

 

Therefore I thought I would need a 3 Button mouse with true MMB Button,

(Like I had with Windows NT 4.0 for Microstation ....)

like 3DConnexion CADMouse.

Honestly, now, motor activity wise, I am a bit overcharged with 3 Buttons + Scroll Wheel,

where the ring finger should click RMB, which leads to many false positives,

while I use wheel for scrolling with my index finger anyway ....

 

But my Mad Catz Rat5 showed that there are scroll wheels that allow very comfortable

MMB clicking. Today I would prefer something like that. 2 Buttons + Scroll Wheel.

 

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11 minutes ago, Christiaan said:

 

I'd love to see a demo of a Wacom being used with VW.

 

 

Basically it works great.

The only thing is with "Zoom around Cursor" in CAD,

that is so heavily dependent on a Scroll Wheel, which

Pens don't offer.

Nevertheless this isn't any issue in any of my 3D Apps.

Like Zooming Modo Wheel OR! ALT+CTRL+LMB,

in C4D ALT+RMB(?), .... each App offers full View Navigation

without the need of a Mouse Scroll Wheel,

by Modifier Key + standard Mouse Buttons.

 

VW doesn't even offer a Tool (+Icon) to do a Zoom about(!) Cursor.

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What about Apple's Touch Pad 2 ?

Does it work for VW ?

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28 minutes ago, Christiaan said:

 

I girlfriend learned to love coriander at about 35, after a lifetime of hating it 😆

 
Good for her, it has some healing powers too!

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42 minutes ago, Christiaan said:

I'd love to see a demo of a Wacom being used with VW.

 

 

It really does work wonderfully - we all learned to write with a stylus - it just feels right.

Plus absolutely no carpel tunnel / back / shoulders badness that just seems normal with years of mouse usage.

 

Downside is that you're a bit on your own as almost no developers pay even the slightest attention to wacom users - Photoshop excepted.

 

 
21 minutes ago, zoomer said:

...which Pens don't offer...

 

You can use the Touch Ring.

I don't often use the touch ring - the awkward spacebar+ctrl dance works almost smoothly ("sixty percent of the time, it works every time") -  but it's nice it's there.

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1 hour ago, Christiaan said:

 

I'd love to see a demo of a Wacom being used with VW.

 

How would that work? What is it you would like to know?

 

The main tip: Ones you have hands on a pen-tablet you need to unplug the mouse!!!!!!
You shouldn't use both at the same time and let the pen do the work (in fact I only use the pen and turned of the touch function too).

It works perfectly smooth for VW, all other (non) design programs and internet. I agree that clicking of the mouse is harmful causes strains in back, arms, shoulders. That for me is the gone ~ I am loving it 🥰.

Edited by C.T

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36 minutes ago, line-weight said:

A tablet becomes tricky if you have multiple monitors, though, right?

nope, I set a key to display toggle.

I've been multi monitor for 15 years and Wacom for longer.

Second nature to toggle screens.

 

My big issue is I like a left hand input device.

You can use a mouse but I had wrist issues so switched to a track ball - but there are limited selections of lefty track balls....

 

Current Setup :

Display toggle is bottom key.

Wacom-Setup-1.thumb.jpg.183eb90ae32bfd341f25963eb396d9fb.jpg

 

 

with Cat Tax (and source of all the cat fur...)

Wacom-Setip-2.thumb.jpg.2c8812e40df2353ea3c3cbf3b875cdf2.jpg

 

 

 

 

Edited by hollister design Studio
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1 hour ago, hollister design Studio said:

You can use the Touch Ring

 

I have to, as there isn't anything else.

But for fast controlled CAD/3D Zooming (about Cursor, again !) for me

that is even 3 times worse than zooming with a my old Magic Mouse.

 

I usually prefer to workaround with the old Space Navigator, which fits

on the Cintiq's large Bezel.

I would imagine that something like a Surface Dial could work for me

as a Scroll Wheel replacement, together with the Pen.

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57 minutes ago, hollister design Studio said:

nope, I set a key to display toggle.

I've been multi monitor for 15 years and Wacom for longer.

Second nature to toggle screens.

 

My big issue is I like a left hand input device.

You can use a mouse but I had wrist issues so switched to a track ball - but there are limited selections of lefty track balls....

 

Current Setup :

Display toggle is bottom key.

Wacom-Setup-1.thumb.jpg.183eb90ae32bfd341f25963eb396d9fb.jpg

 

 

with Cat Tax (and source of all the cat fur...)

Wacom-Setip-2.thumb.jpg.2c8812e40df2353ea3c3cbf3b875cdf2.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Do you use the track ball for navigating around, and wacom for drawing - or is the wacom useful as a means of navigation too?

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Christiaan said:

My main beef with the CadMouse was the physical clicking on the wheel. I don't understand how anybody finds this useful.

 

Me too.

I bought that expensive Mouse with a separate MMB.

So I disabled MMB click for Scroll Wheel in Settings.

Meanwhile I switched it back on again.

As I am used to click on it from time to time anyway,

when coming back from PC with Mad Catz mouse.

 

 

2 hours ago, Christiaan said:

All it meant for me (compared to the MM) is constantly overrunning the point that I want to zoom to.

 

Basically I really like the "Smart Scrolling" option for 3DConnexions

scroll wheel, like for web browsing or in Finder.

 

But I usually, selectively deactivate it for some CAD/3D Apps.

But I like it for scrolling through Classes in VW's Navi Palette.

And over-zooming in CAD isn't such an issue :

- short backwards to stop zooming

- fast backwards zooming, for a shorter amount of time

- oposite direction to stop zooming

you may get used to the timing to zoom very fast to the Scale

you desire, by muscle memory.

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I use keyboard + Wacom Bamboo Pen as following (no mouse at all):

- Spacebar to Pan.

- Spacebar+CTRL to zoomscoll.

- Spacebar+CTRL+MMB (pen button) to orbit.

 

See image for notes.

 

1481526890_2021-02-2222_51_44-2021-02-2212_24_44-Greenshot.thumb.png.0ed50ade25c5e28f591609ca752d7a04.png

Edited by C.T
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3 hours ago, Christiaan said:

I'd love to see a demo of a Wacom being used with VW.

 

For me it is very satisfying to draw a VW Rectangle ....

with a Pen, while seeing your hand, directly on my Cintiq Display.

Or PushPull, dragging Objects or panning the View.

 

I think we're back to Coriander ....

some love drawing on Screen, while others really hate when their hand

occludes parts of their Drawing ....

(What did all these people before PCs when drawing on paper 🧐 )

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@line-weight Track ball is only for the occasional times VW won't recognize a right click from the wacom - which does happen... 

 

Navigation with the wacom is very smooth.

My only issues are with VW frumpy navigation tools (as compared with other 3D software).

 

I have the second pen button mapped as MMB so

  • Pan = pen button (no need to click and drag or touch the surface of the tablet, just hover above and move pen around).
  • Tumble = pen button+ctrl (again no dragging, just hovering over tablet - super easy fluid transfer between pan and tumble - one button).
  • Zoom = spacebar+ctrl and click drag to zoom (zoom on VW drives me crazy - that micro second 'wait time' necessary between pressing the spacebar and pressing the ctrl key is awful).

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The Wacom is a sense of smoothness, of beauty.

 

To those who consider trying the Wacom for healing some injuries, do take a large tablet.

One of the reasons we get these mouse injuries is that we don't move. If they tied your hand the whole day on an object, you'd consider this a torture. It is. One that we inflict ourself.

If you use a large tablet you will move. The larger the better.

 

I have an A3 Wacom Intuos 3 and an M Wacom Intuos 5, which would be somewhat A4.

I definitely see more benefit in the larger Wacom.

 

Don't bother for the inefficiency (a large tablet is deemed inefficient).

Don't bother about the price of the large Wacom, they last forever and beyond. It is for life.

 

I am one who sits insanely long at a computer, more or less every wake moment and I definitely sleep too little.

I came to the Wacom also through a variant of this forum many years ago with punishing pains and hand tendons so shortened that I couldn't write any longer with a normal pen.

 

It all went back. The pain after 2 weeks, never to return, the tendons shortening took much longer, but even that healed after some time.

 

The wide movements of using a pen on the A3 tablet.

 

 

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10 hours ago, hollister design Studio said:

@C.T 

fyi - no need for spacebar to orbit.

Just MMB and Ctrl.

 

One less button!


OMG i've been overusing my thumb 🤣🤣
Thanks for the tip.

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7 hours ago, _c_ said:

The Wacom is a sense of smoothness, of beauty.

 

To those who consider trying the Wacom for healing some injuries, do take a large tablet.

One of the reasons we get these mouse injuries is that we don't move. If they tied your hand the whole day on an object, you'd consider this a torture. It is. One that we inflict ourself.

If you use a large tablet you will move. The larger the better.

 

I have an A3 Wacom Intuos 3 and an M Wacom Intuos 5, which would be somewhat A4.

I definitely see more benefit in the larger Wacom.

 

Don't bother for the inefficiency (a large tablet is deemed inefficient).

Don't bother about the price of the large Wacom, they last forever and beyond. It is for life.

 

I am one who sits insanely long at a computer, more or less every wake moment and I definitely sleep too little.

I came to the Wacom also through a variant of this forum many years ago with punishing pains and hand tendons so shortened that I couldn't write any longer with a normal pen.

 

It all went back. The pain after 2 weeks, never to return, the tendons shortening took much longer, but even that healed after some time.

 

The wide movements of using a pen on the A3 tablet.

 

 

 

I've got a small tablet so the movements are done by mainly moving wrist, that covers the whole screen (projection).

Just curious how it works for you: Do you need to move your whole arm to reach corner of screen?

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I am now using the A4 tablet (I must replace the pen for the other), nevertheless: Not quite the whole arm, but quite a bit of it.

You can imagine the surface taken by an A3 sheet.

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16 hours ago, hollister design Studio said:

Wacom-Setip-2.thumb.jpg.2c8812e40df2353ea3c3cbf3b875cdf2.jpg

 

What a great way to get yourself 'into the zone'

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