Keynotes: maintain 'first 42 characters' setting when copying callouts

[Markus Barrera-Kolb]

We typically place keynotes by copying existing keynote callouts and then entering new text. We rarely, if ever, title individual notes – rather we check the 'Use the first 42 characters of the note for the description' checkbox in the Edit Note dialog box.

However, when you generate a new note by copying an existing one, VW unchecks this box, so that after a good session of placing keynotes, you end up with a nice long list of identically titled notes in your Notes Manager – not very user friendly!

Then you have to edit each of the new notes manually and re-check that option. VW should keep the setting when notes are copied and updated, and it'd also be handy to have a general setting for the whole legend...

[rDesign]

++++1

[in my opinion this is a bug, not a wishlist item].

I've been meaning to submit this as a bug as it also happens in Vw2015, I don't recall if it goes further back than that.

It really drives me nuts as it wastes A LOT of time to set each offending note back to 'Use the first 42...'

[Drake]

This drives me nuts. Please fix this.

[PVA - Admin]

Looks like Christiaan beat me to this one! (Thank you!) Adding my support to the case.

[altoids]

Hard to believe that to fix each line I have to:

1. Double click the notes,

2. Click on the actual note,

3. Click the "Edit..." button (why can't I double click on the note...?)

4. Click the check box, ("Use first 42..")

5. Click "OK" (I can't even us the key as a shortcut, because VW assigns the to be part of the note.

6. Painfully repeat 2 through 5 for all the notes on the sheet,

7. Even more painfully repeat the entire exercise for all the sheets.

To add injury to insult, there is nothing that appears after pressing the "Edit..." button that could't just as easily appear in the "Keynotes Manager:Keynotes List" of notes that shows in #2 above. The "Edit Notes" window is superfluous, as it merely duplicates the editing of the text, and only adds the title and the "Use 42..." option, which could appear in the "Keynotes Manager:Keynotes List" window. Just like the previous sentence, wasting time repeating the same thing, twice.

Why the additional window?

Why not select multiple notes, and then check one box. Boom. Sorted.

Am I missing some faster way of fixing this?

[rDesign]

Hard to believe that to fix each line I have to:

1. Double click the notes,

2. Click on the actual note,

3. Click the "Edit..." button (why can't I double click on the note...?)

4. Click the check box, ("Use first 42..")

5. Click "OK" (I can't even us the key as a shortcut, because VW assigns the to be part of the note.

6. Painfully repeat 2 through 5 for all the notes on the sheet,

7. Even more painfully repeat the entire exercise for all the sheets.

To add injury to insult, there is nothing that appears after pressing the "Edit..." button that could't just as easily appear in the "Keynotes Manager:Keynotes List" of notes that shows in #2 above. The "Edit Notes" window is superfluous, as it merely duplicates the editing of the text, and only adds the title and the "Use 42..." option, which could appear in the "Keynotes Manager:Keynotes List" window. Just like the previous sentence, wasting time repeating the same thing, twice.

Why the additional window?

Why not select multiple notes, and then check one box. Boom. Sorted.

Am I missing some faster way of fixing this?

^^^ I agree 1000% with this ^^^. This has been wasting so much of my time for at least two versions now (2015 & 2016).

Please fix this. This is another instance of giving priority to fixing any broken tools before adding any new ones.

[rDesign]

I just submitted another bug report for this.

Any progress on a fix for this bug? It's really annoying.

[EsserStudios]

I have this same issue. How do I lend my support in requesting that this bug be fixed?

[PVA - Admin]

You just did!

[EsserStudios]

Thanks Jim.

There is another way to formally report a bug worth mentioning, which I found after making my initial post.

http://www.vectorworks.net/support/bugsubmit

I did just get this message from Vectorworks this morning after submitting the bug, see below. They say isn't a bug. They say that the callout is behaving as intended. If that is the case, can someone help me see the advantage to this behavior. In our office, we duplicated an existing keynote and then edit it. Unfortunately this causes havoc in the legend, But I am open to changing my methods if I can understand the benefit. I am always looking to improve our standards.

************

I believe this may be working as designed. Since the note was copied, both the description and the note text are duplicated. However, if you edit the note text, the 42 character option is disabled, to preserve the note description. If you create a new callout without copying an existing note, the 42 character option is enabled.

Thanks.

MICHAEL GROVES

SENIOR TECHNICAL SUPPORT SPECIALIST

************

Edited June 10, 2016 by VellumDesignBuild

[PVA - Admin]

It isn't considered a "bug" at the moment, the argument internally here is which way is preferable and we are taking input. Currently there are only a few states for issues that come directly from users: "Wishlist" "Bug" and response states of "Works as Designed" "Will Fix" "Wont Fix", so whenever we get to something like this where it would effectively be "Design Might Be Wrong" it needs to be filed as bugs to become ammunition for one side or the other in the debate.

You won't be able to get a direct answer from Techs though unfortunately, they aren't trying to deceive you, they just aren't privy to these debates directly in most cases. (I wasn't when I was a tech either, things have changed.)

[EsserStudios]

Jim, Thank you, I appreciate the dialog.

Can someone post a example of a methodology in favor of the current callout behavior?

[rDesign]

GAAAAAH! I don't know how this is considered to be working as designed. 

If you had to edit Keynotes every day just to click the 'Use 42...', you wouldn't think it was working as designed. I have wasted hours of work fixing keynotes because of this 'working as designed' functionality.

My work methodology is the same as VellumDesignBuild: I drag a copy of an existing Keynote which is already properly formatted and then I double-click on it to edit it. This exact same workflow *used* to work perfectly fine back in Vw2010~2012: I would like to know the reason why it was changed from the previous behavior.

Edited March 1, 2017 by rDesign

[PVA - Admin]

So far I can not get a solid answer as to why it was changed or what workflow benefits from it behaving this way. Pushing again.

[rDesign]

Thanks JimW - I know you'll keep pushing.

Perhaps a happy solution to the internal argument would be to provide a global preference setting to control whether copy-dragging a Keynote would preserve the Note description or not.

One of the great strengths of Vw is its flexibility to allow different workflows. But this is an example of where that is not the case.

[rDesign]

So far I can not get a solid answer as to why it was changed or what workflow benefits from it behaving this way. Pushing again.

I'm hoping (against reason) that this ^^^^ will be corrected in Vw2017. Is there any further word about what workflow benefits from this functionality?

Keep pushing again. Thanks.

[rDesign]

What's that saying about the squeaky wheel getting the grease — I'm going to start bumping this topic this every week until it gets addressed.

So far I can not get a solid answer as to why it was changed or what workflow benefits from it behaving this way. Pushing again.

Any hope that this will be addressed soon?

I'd still like to hear the argument for keeping it as designed, which is 'Broken as Designed' as far as I'm concerned.

If no one can come up with a compelling reason to keep it as-is, then it should be classified as 'broken' and it should be fixed. How difficult can it be to put it back to its previous default behavior?

[Markus Barrera-Kolb]

...just annotating a new permit submittal drawing set and am reminded again at how frustrating it is that the 'Use the first 42 characters..." setting is automatically unchecked when you copy a keynote callout and that there's no way to change this setting for multiple callouts at a time!!! So yes, here's to bumping this topic again. Please fix / change this!

[RickR]

There may be a different issue here. The rationale listed above is about editing the text, not about copying. For my money, disabling auto-labels is silly. Making items with duplicate labels is counter to good organization and the VW way of life.

A related suggestion that might solve some issues is to change the notes database function. We can have multiple databases of notes. I think there should be an automatically created database of 'notes in file' like in the resource browser. Then with some bulk selection tools we can update/merge/label and whatever to our hearts contentment.

BTW this should apply to General Notes, Keynotes and Callouts. Should all be separate tools?

[rDesign]

@JimW- any progress on resolving this '42 characters' issue with Keynotes? Any word about why it was changed or what workflow benefits from it?

 

From a quick scan of the responses above, I don't see a single one that feels it is 'working as designed'. Thanks.

[PVA - Admin]

I don't feel it is either. I have filed my displeasure along with the responses in this thread.

[rDesign]

@JimW- thanks for the reply.

 

Keep pushing them, I have lost productivity every time I have to use the Keynote tool because of this.

[Tom Klaber]

On 11/16/2015 at 3:32 PM, Markus Barrera-Kolb said:

We typically place keynotes by copying existing keynote callouts and then entering new text. We rarely, if ever, title individual notes – rather we check the 'Use the first 42 characters of the note for the description' checkbox in the Edit Note dialog box.

However, when you generate a new note by copying an existing one, VW unchecks this box, so that after a good session of placing keynotes, you end up with a nice long list of identically titled notes in your Notes Manager – not very user friendly!

Then you have to edit each of the new notes manually and re-check that option. VW should keep the setting when notes are copied and updated, and it'd also be handy to have a general setting for the whole legend...

 

I did not understand what you meant until just now.  Started playing around with the callout tool.

This is crazy.  

[Jeremy Best]

Hi @JimW!

 

I am adding my voice to the chorus of people calling for the functionality AND workflow of the Callout Notes and Keynote Legend and Database facilities to be completely reimagined and redesigned. 

[Jeremy Best]

@Chad Hamilton HAarchs has expressed the importance of this matter also, including specific needs and considerations here: 

 

[KIvanov]

We will analyze the copy/paste problem in deep.