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sam0

iPad + Android(tablet) App ASAP

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Seriously, in addition to Yoginathaswami's recent topic post a Vectorworks iPad and Android App would be a very good idea.

Even as a place-holder a simple port of something like minicad 6 could probably be achieved in a week by a small reasonably skilled team [unfortunately i don't have such skills-yet]as there are approximately 2 available cad apps on each platform neither of which has the already existing user base of Vectorworks.

in addition to this I'm sure you're already aware autocad is soon to be release an iPad and iPhone app. -which is a little frustrating as i've always considered vectorworks to be the historically more innovative interface.

as an architect on site/and an often moving designer the ability to sketch in cad whilst mobile would be invaluable! even simply the ability to view and pan around emailed dwg files on site would be greatly appreciated.

currently the iPad is presented as a device for consuming media, however it's potential as a sketchpad, as a tool for creating is i feel vastly under appreciated. at this point seeing as there's a very small but growing number of apps for creating appearing vectorworks adoption will have to be quick to take advantage of this.

iPad development is fairly obvious- especially as vectorworks has succeeded as one of the few cross platform systems. however, the range of tablets existing (predating the ipad) and appearing on the vastly adopted Android platform should be recognised as an opportunity to stake a presence apparently not yet appreciated by autocad.

at a more conceptual level the long awaited ability to reconnect drawing input and visual output presented by the humble touchscreen has been long awaited. the input of your finger or stylus, and the output of the line are now almost in the same place, whereas currently mouse and screen are two very different places. although small tablets represent the first available return of the concept of CAD on a drawing board. -this isn't even considering the possible use of built in accelerometers and other such sensors to view/manipulate 3d objects.

the one single largest obstacle people consider is input accuracy, but this is a problem even i can solve.

on a personal note i would be more than happy to be involved in your dev process -even and especially for experimental builds from ui suggestions to testing. if there are any established would-be porting experimenters looking to resolve the issue of screen input accuracy please email as i believe i might have a simple solution that could give you the edge over other packages.

i hope this gets read by a capable engineer.

sam0

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+1 for Android. iPad is too restrictive with what you can put into it and what you can take out of it-I mean, among others, there's no usb connection. I see 16GB getting full very quickly if I have a lot of vw drawings to put on.

So again, Android please.

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+1 for Android. iPad is too restrictive with what you can put into it and what you can take out of it-I mean, among others, there's no usb connection. I see 16GB getting full very quickly if I have a lot of vw drawings to put on.

What are you planning to do with that USB port on your Android tablet? (Which one have you got by the way....?) I've never understood this particular criticism of the iPad. You're not gonna plug a mouse in to a tablet, or any other peripheral, and if you were, why not do it wirelessly over bluetooth (works excellently on my iPad with my iMac BT keyboard). You're not going to use a USB stick for expansion...too slow by far...and for swapping files, DropBox is far better than a USB stick. 16 gigs is a lot of CAD files too...but if you're determined to store them on your device instead of in the cloud, get the 64 gig model...

If we're talking smartphones rather than tablets, forget it. There is absolutely no point to a VW app for iPhone or Android phones...the screen real estate is too limited on a phone to be useful. A 3.5 inch display is smaller than a business card.

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I don't want to start a mac vs pc war so please understand these are just my opinions.

I wouldn't buy Mac because they are overpriced for what you get and I don't have problems with pc's therefore all my workstations are pc. I don't have bluetooth on my pc's and the process of activating/searching for bluetooth devices is just a nuisance. I was told you have to deactivate them each time after use or other's could hack into your system (that makes me paranoid).

Also the price of the iPad is too much compared to similar pc/android touch screen devices.

I've also been told by a salesperson in a Mac store you can't view flash content on an iPad which is ridiculous because a large percentage of web sites use flash. He also said (I don't know if this is true), I can't download for example demo software from the internet, save it onto the iPad hard-drive and then take it to a pc-he said the iPad doesn't have a filing system.

Lots of negetives about an iPad. I'll stick to a Windows 7 touch screen or an Android one, thanks.

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I don't want to start a mac vs pc war so please understand these are just my opinions.

Nor I, though I must set the record straight.

With Macs, I think you get what you pay for. I've owned computers since the ZX81, used Macs in the 80s and early 90s, switched to Windows 95 like many people and used PCs for the next 10 years. My last PC (at home, not the office) convinced me there must be a better way...it came with wi-fi, bluetooth, a TV card and all sorts of bells and whistles...even a wireless keyboard....a pretty well specced machine for 2003....on paper. In reality it was less than the sum of its parts, the wi-fi didn't work, the TV needed an IR receiver on the end of a cable to use the remote, as did the crappy RF interface for the "wireless" keyboard. It ran Norton anti-virus that made the fans go crazy, and yet still got a boot sector virus. Worst 1000 quid I ever spent. I replaced it with a second hand eMac...which had no bells and whistles, but was quiet, reliable and a joy to use. I've since bought a 2010 iMac and it makes me smile to use it...completely silent, fantastic screen, boots in the blink of an eye, robust wi-fi and bluetooth....I could go on. Best 1000 quid I ever spent. I could have had two Dell boxes for what I paid for it, but no way I'd swap.

I note from your comments that you don't actually own a tablet. I think this is revealing, because Windows tablets have been around for years, and nobody bought them. Android tablets are now on the market too, but you haven't bought one. I want to ask you this question about why NV Inc should invest in Android (VW works on Windows already) - why should they put their money into a platform, when you haven't?

The iPad is a great platform...if you haven't used it, don't knock it. It has a large and rapidly growing installed base, and I believe is worth investing in. I don't want to knock Android, it may well become the Windows of the tablet world, but from my own experience, I'll stick with Apple.

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Woot, a new platform war.

Also the price of the iPad is too much compared to similar pc/android touch screen devices.

The only similar devices I know of (BlackBerry PlayBook, Samsung Galaxy Tab, HP Slate) are not only going to be more expensive but they're not even shipping. Which "similar" devices were thinking of?

I've also been told by a salesperson in a Mac store you can't view flash content on an iPad which is ridiculous because a large percentage of web sites use flash.

I've very rarely come across Flash content when browsing with the iPad. Most sites that utilised Flash are now providing open standards in place of or as well as, for iPad/iPhones.

Furthermore, Flash wasn't designed for touch or for mobile devices. I'd be interested if you've had any experience with mobile devices shipping with Flash, shipping with Flash that actually works well, and shipping with Flash that doesn't deplete the battery quickly.

As a side note I dearly hope Apple wins this battle and destroys Flash. I want an open mobile web built on open standards. Not a web built on technology controlled by one vendor.

He also said (I don't know if this is true), I can't download for example demo software from the internet, save it onto the iPad hard-drive and then take it to a pc-he said the iPad doesn't have a filing system.

There's an app for that:

http://itunes.apple.com/app/hwbrowser-download-files-from/id305579328

I'll stick to a Windows 7 touch screen or an Android one, thanks.

So you're comparing the current shipping iPad to devices that aren't shipping?

Edited by Christiaan

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http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-20015954-264.html

Fact is no matter how some may see it Apple does not own the internet

As a side note I dearly hope Apple wins this battle and destroys Flash. I want an open mobile web built on open standards. Not a web built on technology controlled by one vendor

The web is not built on technology controlled by one vendor

Obviously Flash is one of many technologies - and I do not really like it

The web will mature into the future and thankfully Apple will most likely not control it

Yawn

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You do realise this has nothing to do with Flash content on the web or iOS devices?

The web is not built on technology controlled by one vendor

Indeed, mostly, and you can thank Apple and WebKit partly for this. It wasn't always like this however (with web browser companies competing to implement open standards). It used to be that Microsoft controlled the web with IE. Adobe wants to do the same with rich content, via Flash (and so does MS with Silverlight).

The alternative, HTML/CSS/Javascript, is open and not controlled by one vendor. This is what rich mobile content should be built on going ahead, which is precisely what Apple pushes. Not because they're angels; not because it gives them a competitive advantage, but because it eliminates a competitive disadvantage (which is what existed when MS IE dominated the web). This position just happens to be better for all of us.

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Web search engines are blind to Flash (so I am told).

I also have not come across Flash in a web site that was a problem or an issue.

I completely agree with Christiaan that lets compare real working devices. Right now we have the iPad, when something new comes out then it can be looked at. However when the others come on the market Apple as usual will produce newer, better, CUZ APPLE RULES! That was a joke by the way! For all practical purposes it is a, or could be a very usable device (not for all) but VW should utilize any tool available to them and the people using VW. This is evident in their Mac/ PC Programing and it obviously woke the Giant Autodesk to program for Mac. If VW is ahead in something they should continue full steam ahead.

As a not if much of this is incoherent I have not had my coffee yet this morning I apologize.

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Flash as a development platform is different to the Flash plug-in for browsers. I understand that Flash is easy to use, hence its wide deployment, but there is no reason Adobe's tools cannot be repurposed towards the creation of standards-based content, indeed this is already happening.

I haven't missed the Flash plug-in from the iPad, I don't need it for YouTube, iPlayer or much else.

Flash has little relevance to the discussion about a native VW app for iOS or Android.

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I don't think we need this kind of app. Please let NV use all it's resources to make the main program better.

On the other hand, I do think that we need a better VW viewer. One where we can put annotations on for later. And build that viewer so it can also be used on mobile devices.

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Agree with DWorks

My comment from another thread relevant here

Apple should get there act together and make the ipad a real tool and allow a full version of VW, or ArchiCAD or AutoCAD or Revit or whatever to be installed

This is 2010 not 1990

That is what should happen

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As for Flash and ipads I am ringing an Apple outlet today and will ask them to have a look at my web site photo gallery and Design Examples page

The Design Examples designs are VW drawings shown with a Flash based tool called Zoomify - nifty tool but if it does not work on an ipad - ggggrrrrr

That will make me love Apple and Macs even more

Point is though a tool like Zoomify would be great if contractors wished to have a portable device on site instead of paper plans

Think of all that paper and the trees

Or will Adobe provide slightly better zoom and pan tools in Reader?

When I look at operating systems being used for my web site I get

Windowz 87.6%

Mac 11.4%

Wonder what portion of the 11.4 % is for ipads?

Just shaking in my boots

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I don't think we need this kind of app. Please let NV use all it's resources to make the main program better.

Amen to that- NV should fix the bugs in the main program before spending any time on an iOS / Android app. No offense to those who wish otherwise.

Autodesk can apply resources to creating portable app's like this because they spent $576.1 million USD in R&D for 2009. That's in one year. I can't imagine how NV's R&D budget compares with that staggering number, and I don't think it's reasonable to expect NV to create a portable app just because Autodesk has one.

And in the US at least, it will be decades before contractors ever give up having paper copies on site. It's hard to scale off an iPad with your tape measure.

Regards,

Tim

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Title of this post is about creating apps for portable devices.

I think this request is based on a concept of how we think about the output CAD software in general. The old way of outputting is as a series of 2D drawing. That is changing.

If it is model format then I expect there will be a number of IFC model readers developed that use the internal GPS locators of the tablets to know where you are.

But what about good old HTML. Consider the potential of an Export to HTML. The output is a website for the project. Web pages are scaleless, you can always fit a drawing on the page. With a web page you can pan and zoom in and out. Detail does not have to be on separate drawings. The visibility settings of detail gets related to the zoom.

Specification info could be linked directly to the keynote. Changing the page to see a section is simple by a click on the section maker. We already identify the information links in our drawings with call out tools, key notes etc. The data for this output could be built into the PIO's.

HTML is platform neutral. So maybe instead of trying to make an app understand the old data output VA could put the effort into creating an output of data any device can read.

Edited by Assembly

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Works for me. Except we need more consistent wifi and/or phone carrier signals at job sites. An onboard reader, even html, would be needed if no signal.

Seems like lots of work for VNA, though - Develop the next version, debug the current version, develop html mobil version and maybe a standard mobil version, too. Massive in-house resources might be needed to get it all in development at once.

Or could this be 3rd party HTML version?

-B

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Apple should get there act together and make the ipad a real tool and allow a full version of VW, or ArchiCAD or AutoCAD or Revit or whatever to be installed

Other companies have been making tablets like this for years. Nobody buys them. The iPad, on the other hand, is one of the fastest selling electronic devices ever. I'm guessing they'll pass on your advice Ozzie.

As for Flash and ipads I am ringing an Apple outlet today and will ask them to have a look at my web site photo gallery and Design Examples page ... The Design Examples designs are VW drawings shown with a Flash based tool called Zoomify - nifty tool but if it does not work on an ipad - ggggrrrrr ... Point is though a tool like Zoomify would be great if contractors wished to have a portable device on site instead of paper plans

Just use PDFs. Zooming and panning is already an integral part of the multi-touch interface.

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I don't think we need this kind of app. Please let NV use all it's resources to make the main program better.

You might be right that we don't need it. An iPad app is arguably a solution without a problem.

However, I would argue that the reason NV needs to develop an iOS app is that multi-touch is the future. This isn't just about mobile devices. The multi-touch interface will come to the desktop a lot sooner than many think. NV needs to be in this game.

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I don't think we need this kind of app. Please let NV use all it's resources to make the main program better.

On the other hand, I do think that we need a better VW viewer. One where we can put annotations on for later. And build that viewer so it can also be used on mobile devices.

I agree with this as well. Why would you be trying to design on such a small screen anyway? Yes it has the potential of being a great tool but the main program is more important at the moment. Get the current issues solved first. No need to have the problems duplicated.

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I don't think we need this kind of app. Please let NV use all it's resources to make the main program better.

On the other hand, I do think that we need a better VW viewer. One where we can put annotations on for later. And build that viewer so it can also be used on mobile devices.

I agree with this as well. Why would you be trying to design on such a small screen anyway? Yes it has the potential of being a great tool but the main program is more important at the moment. Get the current issues solved first. No need to have the problems duplicated.

i don't think they would be duplicated as iOS interface would oblige a fresh start from scratch, not a port. Just like the forthcoming release of Autocad for the Mac. It's not just the same old bucket of Nuts and Bolts being thrown into a new container, it's a ground up build. Only the appearance, GUI is similar.

Hopefully

:)

That said, i whole heartedly agree that cleaning up the Old App IS a priority . . . .

Edited by AndiACD

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Other companies have been making tablets like this for years. Nobody buys them. The iPad, on the other hand, is one of the fastest selling electronic devices ever. I'm guessing they'll pass on your advice Ozzie.

Touch? ? but I was not trying to provide anyone with advice

And here is a little advice for you re ipads

If you care to look and understand why flash is not available on ipad

http://www.cultofmac.com/adobe-theres-no-flash-on-ipad-because-apple-is-protecting-content-revenue/28564

There are many many other articles out there about it

ipad is just the beginning as it is now and therefore immature

Tell you what though as an example of maturity today now ? the Existing Tree Tool

If I could set up a simple spread sheet run it on an ipad or similar, visit site, collect data on individual trees and port that data back into VWs Existing Tree Tool that would be useful for me and is probably doable today

That though as yet has not happened

It used to be that Microsoft controlled the web with IE. Adobe wants to do the same with rich content, via Flash (and so does MS with Silverlight).

No doubt but Apple with ipad is no different but you have not mentioned that and there is no doubt about it ? wonder why?

The original poster of this thread said this

on a personal note i would be more than happy to be involved in your dev process -even and especially for experimental builds from ui suggestions to testing. if there are any established would-be porting experimenters looking to resolve the issue of screen input accuracy please email as i believe i might have a simple solution that could give you the edge over other packages.

His first post here apparently

He also said this

as an architect on site/and an often moving designer the ability to sketch in cad whilst mobile would be invaluable! even simply the ability to view and pan around emailed dwg files on site would be greatly appreciated.

Question is ? what % of VW users would right now today use such functionality if available?

Probably in reality few

I would prefer NV put their development dollars into VW today to improve it rather than an application for ipad or anything similar

Just use PDFs. Zooming and panning is already an integral part of the multi-touch interface

To do that I would have to buy an ipad ? not until they run without restrictive practices and run a full version of VW

That in computer land will not be long ? Apple just has to get their act together with ipad rather than using it to gain more $ from their users

When I rang the Apple shop on the weekend the salesman said Flash not playing was ? ?a problem being fixed? ? of course I corrected him about that and told him the truth - he conceded that in the end and said - ?I was correct? - to his credit

I would argue that the reason NV needs to develop an iOS app is that multi-touch is the future. This isn't just about mobile devices. The multi-touch interface will come to the desktop a lot sooner than many think. NV needs to be in this game

I would argue if it appears multi-touch is the future that may have very little to do with developing an app for iOS

Just develop the app for multi-touch and allow iOS to catch up with main stream cad computing

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Ozzie, just a footnote on iOS, recent info on the November release of v4.2 suggest that developer tools to enable the use of Flash have been relaxed to allow access

Only time will tell. . . . .

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If you care to look and understand why flash is not available on ipad

http://www.cultofmac.com/adobe-theres-no-flash-on-ipad-because-apple-is-protecting-content-revenue/28564

Ozzie, you've demonstrated amply that "understand" and "iPad" have no place in a sentence by yourself. There is absolutely nothing stopping Hulu from offering free TV shows through the iTunes Store. And there's nothing stopping them from offering HTML5 video via web browser either (as the BBC does). Adobe promulgates this rubbish because they're pissed that Apple is trying to stop them controlling rich content on the web.

This article is riddled with more holes than your comments on the matter. It even says YouTube doesn't work on iOS, simply an outright lie. YouTube has always worked on iOS.

If I could set up a simple spread sheet run it on an ipad or similar, visit site, collect data on individual trees and port that data back into VWs Existing Tree Tool that would be useful for me and is probably doable today

That though as yet has not happened

Your brazen ignorance is breathtaking for someone with Google at his fingertips: http://www.apple.com/ipad/features/numbers.html

It used to be that Microsoft controlled the web with IE. Adobe wants to do the same with rich content, via Flash (and so does MS with Silverlight).

No doubt but Apple with ipad is no different

If you bothered to absorb what I wrote above you'd understand that Safari for iPad is based on open standards: HTML/CSS/Javascript. Which is different to Adobe's proprietary closed Flash plugin. One is an open industry standard, one is a closed system controlled by one vendor. In your imaginary world Apple is using the closed one.

Do you want the likes of Adobe/Microsoft controlling rich content on the web or do you want it controlled by open standards that all industry players and consumers can have a say in?

Just use PDFs. Zooming and panning is already an integral part of the multi-touch interface

To do that I would have to buy an ipad ? not until they run without restrictive practices and run a full version of VW

What do you need an iPad for to upload PDFs to your website? Create PDFs of your work, upload them to your website, link to them. Any iPad user can then view them. PDF is an open industry standard after all, unlike Flash.

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Ozzie, just a footnote on iOS, recent info on the November release of v4.2 suggest that developer tools to enable the use of Flash have been relaxed to allow access

Andi, as noted above, however, this is not related to Flash content on iOS. This is about being able to write apps using Flash tools which automatically port them to native iOS apps.

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