How to create a curved bench seat with vertical batten array back rest

[EmmaLa]

I am new to Vectorworks 3D modelling capabilities and am trying to model a curved bench seat that features vertical timber battens as a backrest at an angle of 10degrees. I've managed to create the seat components (a base with battens arrayed along curve) and a solid backrest at the angle I want, but I can't figure out how to array the vertical battens for the backrest at the correct angle.

 

Here are a couple of snips showing where I'm at:

[Tom W.]

Use Rotate Tool to give the batten the correct angle; use Extract Tool to create NURBS Curve that follows top front edge of concrete backrest; select NURBS + batten + run Edit > Duplicate Along Path... using Fixed Distance (batten spacing), Tangent to Path + Keep original orientation. This should work.

[Peter Neufeld.]

Hello,

Tom is right. Another way is to model forgetting about the curve until the end and use the Deform tool. This way the modelling is easier. You might want to save bits and pieces along the way in case you need to go back and refine because once bent an uneditable Generic Solid will be produced.

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers,

Peter

 

PS. A single Solid Addition might not be what you want so you probably need to do this a couple of times; once for the base of the bench and then the slats. Even if the slats aren't touching they can all be combined into a Solid Addition and this will make the one object available for bending. 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2023 by Peter Neufeld.
Added PS.

[Tom W.]

It may not be an issue but be aware that using Deform will result in tapered battens. The 10° angle was the slope of the backrest. The curve of the seat looks more like 90° so the tapering will be fairly pronounced on the seat battens. I do love the Deform Tool though.

[Peter Neufeld.]

Yes excellent point.

Just a bit over 1mm from a 10º bend in my example (3m long bench). Which you might get away with depending...

 

 

 

 

Cheers,

Peter

[mike m oz]

Model it how you think it would be built.  

If all the battens need to be the same size and shape try using Duplicate along Path in Fixed Distance mode.

[EmmaLa]

Thanks for your help everyone. 

@Tom W. unfortunately this didn't work for me. The backrest is for some reason in segments and so the extract tool doesn't produce a single nurbs curve along the top edge. See image below for reference:

Is there a straightforward way of creating this backrest with the angle 10degrees that I am missing? 

[EmmaLa]

Thanks @Peter Neufeld. This seems like a good method for creating curves - however after following your steps I just got a message 'deform tool failed'. This is a frustrating brick wall I seem to run  into a lot with vectorworks modelling. It would be so good if it told me why it failed! 

 

Also noting with this method - is there a way to then 'explode' solids after add solids and deform has happened, so that the battens are separate to the concrete base and correct textures can be applied? 

 

[mjm]

19 hours ago, mike m oz said:

Model it how you think it would be built.  

If all the battens need to be the same size and shape try using Duplicate along Path in Fixed Distance mode.

almost certainly how I'd do this

[jmcewen]

This would be an ideal use of Chain Extrude, wouldn't it?  I have never used it, but it sounds like the primary purpose of that tool to me.  Lay out the battens (both seat and back) instead of the  frame of the awning that is typically used as an example of how the tool is used.  Use a curve for the path object instead of the face of the building the awning attaches to, and use the the rectangular profile of the end of the bench as the profile extruded instead of the awning surface.   Again, I never use this tool but if it works the way I understand it, then the whole project should be finished in a few clicks with no deforming involved.

[EmmaLa]

Thanks all. After trying a few differrent things I found the best way to array battens along curved face of backrest was to duplicate batten along nurbs curve with fixed distance mode. This resulted in the batten profile staying the same along the curve, but the gap between battens changes between the inner and outer arc.  

[Peter Neufeld.]

Well done. You might also want to change the View>Rendering>Shaded Options>Quality to Medium or High for when you output.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[Tom W.]

4 hours ago, EmmaLa said:

The backrest is for some reason in segments and so the extract tool doesn't produce a single nurbs curve along the top edge

 

Hold down Shift key as you click on the edges to select multiple edges. Separate NURBS Curves will be created in a Group. Ungroup + run Compose to create a single NURBS.

[Tom W.]

3 hours ago, jmcewen said:

This would be an ideal use of Chain Extrude, wouldn't it?  I have never used it, but it sounds like the primary purpose of that tool to me.  Lay out the battens (both seat and back) instead of the  frame of the awning that is typically used as an example of how the tool is used.  Use a curve for the path object instead of the face of the building the awning attaches to, and use the the rectangular profile of the end of the bench as the profile extruded instead of the awning surface.   Again, I never use this tool but if it works the way I understand it, then the whole project should be finished in a few clicks with no deforming involved.

 

I have never used it either but just tried it now + can't get it to work. Can you see if you have any luck? And tell me what I'm doing wrong!

[line-weight]

I too have never used it (nor really noticed it).

 

Had a quick go out of curiosity. Can get it to sort of work, but the first thing I notice is that if I draw a curved path, it doesn't follow it - it follows something like a segmented straight path between the nodes I've used to define eg a bezier curve.

 

My instinct: this is one of those broken VW tools that got introduced, then never maintained. And is left there, to waste people's time in working out how to use it, only to find it doesn't work.

 

So I did a google, and indeed this bug was noticed and reported back in 2010. But seemingly has never been fixed:

 

 

Thirteen years ago.

Edited August 15, 2023 by line-weight

[mike m oz]

Line-weight, the Chain Extrude command has always only worked on paths which have straight line segments.   The paths also need to be parallel to the Ground Plane.

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

On 8/13/2023 at 11:05 PM, EmmaLa said:

how to array the vertical battens for the backrest at the correct angle.

Lots of great info on this thread.

I don't know if this will help or if I even have the problem straight, but the backrest angle can be controlled by another object.  I am assuming you used some form of duplicate along a path for the wood slats. 

For the back rest duplicate two objects as shown below.  First image.  The back angle can be set to any angle, but remains a child of the first object which is horizontal.  Then loft the backs.  Second Image.  Third image shows loft.

 

[line-weight]

11 minutes ago, mike m oz said:

Line-weight, the Chain Extrude command has always only worked on paths which have straight line segments.   The paths also need to be parallel to the Ground Plane.

 

The fact that I'm given these various curved options for the path, suggests that it is not working as designed. That, or it's an example of truly terrible interface design, giving people options to choose modes that don't actually work.

 

 

It also gives me these options in the OIP:

 

 

And I don't see anything in the documentation that specifies the path object can't be curved:

 

https://app-help.vectorworks.net/2023/eng/VW2023_Guide/Shapes2/Chain_extrude_properties.htm#h

 

[jmcewen]

6 hours ago, line-weight said:

 

The fact that I'm given these various curved options for the path, suggests that it is not working as designed. That, or it's an example of truly terrible interface design, giving people options to choose modes that don't actually work.

 

 

It also gives me these options in the OIP:

 

 

And I don't see anything in the documentation that specifies the path object can't be curved:

 

https://app-help.vectorworks.net/2023/eng/VW2023_Guide/Shapes2/Chain_extrude_properties.htm#h

 

I opened this tool once assuming it was a tool that allowed you to make parametric chains.  It wasn't what I was looking for so I closed it and moved on.  But I remembered those curves in the mode bar and assumed the same.  Too bad.  This sounds like a very powerful tool.

[jmcewen]

19 hours ago, EmmaLa said:

Thanks @Peter Neufeld. This seems like a good method for creating curves - however after following your steps I just got a message 'deform tool failed'. This is a frustrating brick wall I seem to run  into a lot with vectorworks modelling. It would be so good if it told me why it failed! 

 

Also noting with this method - is there a way to then 'explode' solids after add solids and deform has happened, so that the battens are separate to the concrete base and correct textures can be applied? 

 

The Deform tool works great when it works.  It fails a lot though.  It amazes me what it will joyfully plow through, and it equally amazes me how it can stumble on tasks that appear to be simple.

 

Note that the deform tool will also always result in a generic solid, thereby deleting all history data for the object.  You will not be able to edit any additions, subtractions, fillets, chamfers, etc after the operation.  Consider your order of operations when planning your model with this in mind.  this should only apply to each object, though.  Each batten should end up a generic solid and the concrete should be a generic solid.

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

4 minutes ago, jmcewen said:

The Deform tool works great when it works

Deform tools, like Subdivision modelling are tools of the animation world.  If I recall correctly they appeared after C4D started transferring some technology to VW's.  They are fine for visualization, which is a large part of Vectorworks user base, but eventually they will leave you hanging.

The curved bench is a simple project and this tool will work well, but make the bench curve exponentially or erratically and you have a problem, etc.  Fortunately, most park and playground structures are more conventional.

[Jeff Prince]

3 hours ago, VIRTUALENVIRONS said:

Deform tools, like Subdivision modelling are tools of the animation world.  If I recall correctly they appeared after C4D started transferring some technology to VW's.  They are fine for visualization, which is a large part of Vectorworks user base, but eventually they will leave you hanging.

The curved bench is a simple project and this tool will work well, but make the bench curve exponentially or erratically and you have a problem, etc.  Fortunately, most park and playground structures are more conventional.

This is just incorrect and bad advice.

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

 

 

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

As promised in PM.

This Spiral Park Bench was created using a single NURBS curve and a cube.  This will go on my Vectorworks NURBS channel, hence the music.

 

regards....Paul