Fading out elements in sections/interior elevations based on distance

[luiza_finger]

Wondering if there is a way/trick to fade out elements lineweight/color from objects based on the distance from the section plane.

This is a simple Hidden Line VP with Display surface textures on. But I am open to suggestions.

 

I would definely not want to create new viewports for each section. That would be not reasonable as workflow for the long run.
My other way out would be drawing white opacity blocks on the far away elements, but I am looking for something dynamic (meaning that even if I change something in the project, it would still working by updating the viewport).

 

Thanks!

[Kevin K]

@luiza_fingerNot sure if this is exactly what you seek, but there is a setting in the 'attributes' options for the section viewport, that lets you configure the lineweights and colors, etc for any objects 'beyond' the section cut plane.

 

 

So it would appear like this, with much lighter lines, etc beyond the section cut.

This image is just a screenshot, so the resolution is not great, but you get the idea.

Again, I am not sure ion this is what you were asking about ??

 

[Tom W.]

I think they want the ability to have different zones beyond the cut plane allowing closer objects to be displayed more prominently (darker) than those further away (lighter). At the moment it's all or nothing. There was another thread discussing the same thing a little while ago but I couldn't find it. I think it's a good idea.

[grant_PD]

I have had to do this recently.  Unfortunately we wanted the set in the venue to be sectioned, with its geometry beyond the cut plane a normal light weight, and the venue beyond greyed out.  I had to resort to stacking viewports to get the venue to be greyed out.  Not my favorite method.

 

[Kevin K]

Am I missing something??  Is that not what I showed??

I made a class for objects beyond the section cut to have lines a gray color and a line weight of 2 mils....??

Unless you are implying that there are sequential stages, depending on the distance from the cut plane??  That would produce a 'tiered' arrangement ending up in the twilight zone ?  🙂

So...for example, 5 feet beyond the cut plane would have a specific line weight and color, then 10 feet beyond the cut plane would be another configuration for line weight and line color, etc, etc?

I get it, but that does seem a bit over the top?

I really can't imagine, when printing the document(s) one would even be able to tell the difference?

I could be wrong...remember...I am old and live in the tropics, so the heat could be affecting my brain. 🙂

 

[Tom W.]

Just now, Kevin K said:

Unless you are implying that there are sequential stages, depending on the distance from the cut plane??  That would produce a 'tiered' arrangement ending up in the twilight zone ?  🙂

So...for example, 5 feet beyond the cut plane would have a specific line weight and color, then 10 feet beyond the cut plane would be another configuration for line weight and line color, etc, etc?

I get it, but that does seem a bit over the top?

I really can't imagine, when printing the document(s) one would even be able to tell the difference?

 

 

Yes that's it. But it wouldn't necessarily need to involve multiple tiers, getting lighter + lighter. For me it would just be about having the ability to push the 'grey zone' back from the cut plane a specified distance with the objects in front of the grey zone displaying 'normally'.

[luiza_finger]

Yes! I suspected that @grant_PD solution is what I out ended up having to do. The problem is that I have maybe dozens of viewports to deal with, on every project.

@Kevin K Thanks for the suggestion. I am aware of Objects beyond cut plane options. Its in deed really handy. But my dream would be something like this:

 

 

This would also be particularly useful for elevations, in order to give "depth" to the section.

 

[Kevin K]

Well, @luiza_finger, as you mentioned...hold on to that dream!!! 🙂

[luiza_finger]

OK, my post got old while writing it down, but it's exactly how @Tom W. said. We usually use lineweight to define "close" and "far" objects in the elevations.
I know this might look subjective but here in Brazil this is kinda "standard". In non-BIM software we used to have classes to define depth in sections/elevations.

[line-weight]

It would be useful to have more control over this for sure (but there are more important things to fix first!).

 

I sometimes use a grey line for objects beyond a cut plane - it depends what the purpose of the section is, and whether those background objects are explained/critical in the drawing or just for context. I also use the "extent beyond cut plane" sometimes, simply not to show stuff beyond a certain distance, in order to keep the drawing clear and uncluttered. And sometimes a mixture of both. Mostly I find something that works for the purpose.

 

When thinking about this kind of stuff I tend to revert to what I'd do with old skool hand drawing. And while you can use lineweight well to add clarity to drawings, if you start to use too many different weights/darknesses, you end up causing confusion. I actually think this is a rather important aspect of good draughting. It should always be absolutely clear what is section and what is elevation, for example (and I see many drawings which fail this test).

 

When I see CAD or BIM-generated line drawings that I think are bad, it's often because they are undisciplined in what they do and don't show.

 

Sometimes it's possible to have too many options - especially in the wrong hands.

Edited March 7, 2023 by line-weight

[rDesign]

This has been a wishlist item for a long time (at least since 2015), see thread below.

I usually do what @Kevin K suggests and set all of the SLVP line work beyond to a thin line and in the SLVP annotations manually draw a thicker outline as needed for graphical clarity.

 

 

[grant_PD]

went back to my problem drawing and saw that this could be achieved via class overrides in the SLVP.  However, I don't think this solve would always work.  In my case, I had a 2D section drawing of the house (very common in theatres) that I could just fade out.  But to do this by depth of section....that is beyond class overrides.

[Michael Siggers]

On 3/7/2023 at 6:01 PM, Kevin K said:

I made a class for objects beyond the section cut to have lines a gray color and a line weight of 2 mils....??

Hi @Kevin K

 

Apologies for jumping into this thread, but this is exactly what I am looking for.

 

So, please bear with me as I'm in the process of transitioning to Vectorworks from my current software, so am on a (steep) learning curve at the moment.

 

Anyway, would you mind explaining about creating the Class used to grey background items out and how this works if Items are already assigned to Classes, such as 'Windows', 'Doors', etc. Is it just a Class which is ONLY assigned/applied to objects beyond the cut plane when specified in that dialogue box, for that specific Viewport, ie. it doesn't change the actual Class of the various objects? Kind of a temporary Class only used in that situation?

 

Kind regards

 

Mike

[Kevin K]

yep, correct....

you make a class that has a specific line weight, and color for the line...in my case mine is called 'Section Background Lines". But call it whatever you wish.

Then you can assign that to the attributes for the line style beyond the cut plane, as I had noted in the screenshot. That's really it...

[Tom W.]

Also @Michael Siggers you can set up a few of these 'section style' classes + save them in your template file (and/or Standards User file) so they're always there for use when you create section VPs

 

 

 

[Michael Siggers]

Thank you @Kevin K and @Tom W.

 

Not sure where I would be without this Forum. Extremely helpful.

 

I will give that a go. As mentioned, I think I'm on a steep learning curve and feel like I'm playing catchup. Still, enjoyable learning though.

 

Mike

[line-weight]

And note that you can do something similar for the "cut plane" too.

 

I have a couple of "cut plane" classes, that I use when I am doing "merged" type sections (that is, when you don't see all the internal detail of walls and other things you are sectioning through).

 

For example I have one which gives me a thick black line and white fill, and one with a thinner outline but a grey fill.

 

These you can swap for the class that VW gives you by default, called "section style".

 

(This is a typical bit of VW confusing design - why call a class "section style" when "style" is supposed to have a specific meaning within the programme? But anyway...)

[Michael Siggers]

Hi @line-weight

 

I think I understand that, although maybe that's a can of worms I'll open when I get a little more proficient.

 

Don't suppose yiu have a visual example of a merged section?

 

On a side note, it's amazing how it takes so long to unlearn keyboard shortcuts from previous software. Must be some sort of muscle memory. The amount of time I keep pressing Space for the Selection tool is ridiculous 🙂

 

Mike

[Benson Shaw]

Another REALLY old vwx (or mcd) workaround:

Section VP on sheet layer

Duplicate in Place

     Front VP - disable objects beyond cut plane

     Back VP - disable objects in front of cut. 

Draw a 2d rectangle around the stack. 
     Send the rectangle back to middle of the VP stack.

      White fill.
     Adjust opacity to suit. 
(Or, I guess the rectangle could be in annotation space of either VP. Send to front or back as appropriate).

 

Grey’s out the background VP ok, but . . . 

Doesn’t help with varying line weights.

Needs attention to remember its a stack.

etc etc problems, problems 
 

Ah, th’ good old days

 

-B

[Benson Shaw]

@Michael Siggers in case you have not discovered already, there is a kind of transition action for the spacebar to select tool.
 

Push/Hold the spacebar allows temporary use of other tools (defaults to Pan tool). Continue to hold and mouse over a palette to click on Select or any other tool for use while the spacebar is down.  
 

Maybe the two step process gives can confuse the muscle memory while simultaneously producing the desired tool, at least temporarily? Psychobabble blah blah. 
 

Naturally it reverts. Next spacebar hold defaults to Pan. 
 

-B

[Tom W.]

Plus hit Space bar normally to activate Smart Options Display (in my set-up at least)

[Tom W.]

7 hours ago, Michael Siggers said:

Don't suppose yiu have a visual example of a merged section?

 

This is with 'Separate Cross Sections' + 'Use Attributes of Original Objects' enabled:

 

Then these are using 'Merge Cross Sections' + various different 'section style' classes controlling the look:

 

Not that you'd want to show a detail in this way. So this is a better example of merging:

Or:

[Michael Siggers]

Hi @Tom W.

 

Ah, yes, thank you. I have been playing with that setting.

 

Good to know that different Section Styles, (Classes?) can be used for the Merged ones.

 

Mike

[Tom W.]

4 minutes ago, Michael Siggers said:

Good to know that different Section Styles, (Classes?) can be used for the Merged ones.

 

Yes these are the classes I have saved in Standards:

 

 

So some are for the cut plane + some for beyond the cut plane. Just set up whatever attributes you want these are just what I use.

 

Good luck!

[line-weight]

Of course what we really want is proper viewport styles, so that we can have these setups and easily apply them to any viewport without fiddling with the dialogue boxes individually.