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Ah, yes. But for me it is always important to be able to assign extra buttons App specific for all 3D and CAD Apps. So I usually need the driver suite bloatware. It is easy if for standard Apps like browsing, mail and such. I could even use the magic mouse for this comfortably. But as soon as drawing on screen, I would need bettertouchtool for extra cursor speed without acceleration. And still never reached a satisfying MMB or "scroll wheel" click. (I really admire all Mac CAD and VW users staying with their magic mice)

Hi Jesse, I understand what you are doing here. But I think these are just misunderstandings or different use of definitions. Of course, if you extract Faces from a 3D Objects, these new faces use the initial 3D location and orientation. (if they are true 2D elements, I do not get why there is not offered any "flatten" command or set to "Layer Plane" ...) And I did not yet tried to let VW create 2D appearances from 3D Symbols so far ..... But I would have expected that I can edit these 2D front/side/top geometries, as I most times need to clean them up or sort them to LODs anyway, as always and just assign Classes, line weights and such ... If not .... not so good. But the essential principal of a VW "Screen Plane" is its difference to other XYZ or CAD Planes/UCS/WCS, .... that it is a dynamic Plane, that actually rotates and reorients to your View Screen surface whenever you rotate your View in 3D. The only reason for screen plane that is useful is like putting text/icon or info labels along your 3D Elements so they are always oriented to the Viewer and legible, whatever you navigate your 3D Viewport. Like a video of a 3D scene with 2D overlays done in a video editing software that always follow their parent 3D Objects .... (And some VW users make use of that in a very creative way) But that is as niche feature/usage which is seldom needed. Most times Screen Plane Objects just annoy in any 3D View. Their real location is not predictable or legible. So I postulate that users, and VW, misuse screen plane in many other ways than its "screen orientation". There is no reason to have 2D parts of Symbols or Hybrids to ever orient to monitor ! They have to orient perpendicular to a Section derived Viewport, which is usually in XY plane on your 2D Sheet Layer. Everything that is 2D only I would describe by XY coordinates first. Because it is has no thickness or 3rd Dimension. If any 2D needs to be seen in a 3D context - it is 3D ! and needs 3 coordinates. And I have not seen in any case so far where that Screen Plane is needed in any way that would not be possible to describe by just a much more adequate XY, XZ or YZ Plane. So just keep one of the 3 Axis zero and it is clear that it is 2D and should be flat. if it is rectilinear in 3D add a Z but keep the "same" for all these objects. I postulate that VW does use "Screen Plane" wrong in 98%. Either they take away that disturbing dynamic screen orientation feature and rename it to something like "our-special-2D-plane-that-makes-sure-that- content-is-2D-onlyand-oriented-properly-to-our-current-pupose-in-or- from-our-tool" or use proper coordinate systems. 2D that auto aligns according to purpose - or just proper 3D in 3D Space. And it looks like VW decided to get rid of this problem by deprecating that wired Screen Plane thing, which I highly welcome. But so far, in reality, there is still no chance to really get rid of Screen Plane. No chance to get Screen Plane out of all Containers like Symbols or Groups. But for all screen misusing workflows outside, I am 100% that there would be reasonable suitable plane definition or workaround that can offer at least the same functionality if not more and more consistent.

Well Screen Plane is deprecated, I can keep my files screen plane screen, but not get rid of screen plane from client imports or underlays ... But it is a good start. And for all that still need screen plane, you can bring it back easily or it is still there for migrated files that had it in use. But basically all trouble is about naming and dual use with the dynamic plane feature. (Hey, Image Props have another "look at Camera" feature, could be replaced by just Screen Plane. Would only need a rotate only about Z lock option)

I learned that you can do a custom selection for screen plane objects and convert them. Unfortunately that will not effect any objects inside Groups or Symbols (In my cases mostly 80+ %) And AFAIR you may select them separate by object type to be able to change to Layer Plane via OIP at a time. And AFAIR the number of found screen plane objects may have gone up again after converting them (?) As long as you only reference such files and bring them in by Design Layer Viewport mode, that should not be an issues. If you bring them in into your master file, it will have legacy 2D enabled now too, until you cleaned up again. AFAIR it was also not possible to convert screen plane objects hidden in Container Objects with any VW scripting. So you would need to explode/ungroup everything to really get rid of screen plane and all legacy 2D stuff.

If you need RW Rendering, Cinema Render Engine is needed and I am not sure if it is a good idea to try to pull it out in general ..... I noticed that lately Cinerender stalling too here, but not every time. Usually for me it stalls "checking license" .... And am not sure if you can really trust the loading screen infos. I haven't even installed VW 2024 so far on Windows. So I do not know how long it starts. But generally VW for me was always one of the slowest starting Apps. In an office in the past I was told, first you boot your PC, start your CAD and then you go and grab your cup of coffee ....

Thanks for your clock in the video. Now I know that VW 2024 here on my M1 Mac Mini takes 36 seconds until the Home Screen appears. Do you have large workgroup files on a slow server connection ? And I saw it stalling loading Cinerender for about 20 s ?

So far it is not. It is still called Screen Plane. But it is partially hidden from users now in VW templates or migrated files that do not contain Screen Plane Elements. That is what I mean by using Apples (OpenGL now deprecated ....) term. (OpenGL is still available on Mac ... just no development ... which wasn't that existing there before though ...) BTW I meant screen plane clean .....

Would it be possible to ad a Home Screen "Link" : As an extra "File Tab", half width, at most left beside our File Tabs ? As I hardly hit the current Icon in Window's top bar or always hit the wrong Icon. And while I'm at it. I see on ARM Mac that Home Screen Opens a new external "VW" Window. Which shows some lag here. Also when I want to get back to Files I feel a bit uncomfortable to hit the red Close button. (As I fear I could close my VW session. Maybe there is an idea more integrated way to hold Home Screen.

I don't think these are much of an issue. I would just care about Unified View enabled with correct Settings. I thing the only nuisance about screen plane objects is when using a 3D Iso or Perspective View and some 2D Objects will jump off ground and stick to your screen ....

Usually when nothing is there it is geometry sub Z 0,00, which will just be occluded by TM's default ground plane at Z 0,00. You can delete that default ground plane and check if your geometry was below or is really not there.

Since I started with VW 2014, I never understood for what at all I could need such a "screen plane" feature. I personally I am very happy that screen plane is now hidden. (no problem that users who think they need it, can unhide it again) And in any App before or beside VW I never saw any feature like screen plane and ever had the feeling I would miss something. So I am fine and will call a "screen plane" feature, hidden behind an "enable 2D Legacy" - deprecated (*) (*) In Apple definition, we told you years ago it is outdated and you should avoid to use it. OK, it is still there but will not get any further improvements. And it is official now - it will go one day, this is your last chance to get forward) But my problem was not that screen plane is deprecated. My problem was that certain bugs or misbehaviors of VW made me feel that maybe not ALL rests of screen plane were already found and worked over in all tools, so that in some dark VW corners there may be still traces of screen plane that negatively influence a now screen plane-free workflow in VW 2022. (Like when you edit Extrudes or Slabs in a 3D View and get an abnormal result - while it will work only when you switch to a Top Plan View) It is just my assumption, that these issues are related to the attempt to clean VW Tools from screen plane dependency. But my main question was, are still ALL mentioned issues in this thread still happening in VW 2022, or are there already some been fixed over the years. (In case someone from VW may be interested in fixing any still existing issues)

So I come to the question of what is the best way of Lidar scanning ? For my first Point Cloud scan attempt I heavily moved around with the iPhone and behind and under all things to avoid "data shadows". It looks like the disadvantage is that this way, iPhones location/position awareness may suffer and you end up redundantly scanning some important Faces like from Walls again and again. And for me it looks each time Lidar adds another layer of points over these Faces. And is it is not super accurate, these Layers do not happen on the same plane. If I watch my cropped cloud in a top view, I can see that for some Walls I have five or more planes of point layers. Therefore I did another test, trying to "mimic a Leica Station" or gimbal. Means I tried to not move around (impossible), only rotate the iPhone and scanning only radial. And I tried to avoid scanning things again. The result looks a bit more accurate and file size is much smaller but I have relatively few points. Which I would think is a good thing. But interestingly, planar face detection in Bricscad was even harder and planes less accurate oriented in space. Are there any other experiences and best practices ?

I absolutely love Room Plan. I think dimension accuracy is pretty decent. But my problem is the quality of the Meshes. I mean the simple boxes from furniture are good. But everything more complex, like 4 touching Walls of a room or a Wall with a Window opening are a Mesh-mess. There are simple inaccuracies like Wall "connections" not meeting at the same point. More annoying are that the "boolean-like" construction of a Wall with a Window opening has slightly non planar component faces. And the organization of the Meshes itself. Some Meshes include a set of independent Volumes. I am not able to create any Solids from these important Mesh Elements, like Walls. And I had hoped that Room Plan would do an "idealization" and simplification of the scan. Like forcing everything reasonable rectilinear into a XY, XZ or YZ plane and round ugly numbers to a full cm and such. Is there any room for improvement from VW/Nomads side, or does Apples API not allow better Meshes ?

I would recommend Layer Plane. As long as you work strictly 2D only, you will do this usually in Top Plan View only. (Like we did on paper in the past. Like aligning your Sections and Elevations around the Top Plan so that you can snap to it) And in case of a Top View (=XY) ... there isn't any difference behavior between Top Plane vs Screen Plane. The special behavior of Screen Plane objects only happens in any 3D View. Like Isometrics, Side Views, .... In this case Screen Objects will be fixed parallel to your monitor screen, meaning they will always look at you, no matter you rotate the view. And in my personal opinion, there are very rare use cases where this Screen Space behavior makes sense. (Something like adding Screen Space Text Annotations to 3D objects, so you can still read them from all viewing directions (?)) I am not 100 % sure but I understand the new Screen Plane free workflows this way : When you draw any 2D Object, it will be drawn on Layer Plane. (Where Object Z = Z height of the Layer) As soon as you move it in Z or rotate it around any other Axis than pure Z Axis, it will change to 3D Plane. 2D Objects will also become 3D Plane when you draw 2D Elements while using a rotated UCS or by drawing Auto Plane, on Planes that differ from Layer Plane.

Hmmh, I read about Cineware loading issues in the past. So in case I watch VW start welcome window, I usually keep an eye on Cineware. But usually that doesn't take exceptionally long for me. I am more used that the License check is slowest. But when I started today and accidentally watched the welcome screen, I had to notice that VW looks stalling quite a while with the Revit plugin (!?) Overall start time of course much longer than agreeable as usual, but Revit took definitely longer than Cineware here.

Really !? Why not just assigning a XY, XZ or YZ Plane by keeping the 3rd Axis zero ?

When importing USD files from VW Nomad iOS App, (which are deeply hidden in a nested group orgy) I would love to see Component Edit Palette to appear - wherever on screen VW decides .... But unfortunately CEP does not happen to help managing deep nested grouping

Before I think too much, my keep it simple stupid approach would be - Rectangle Tool - first point at building corner - holding SHIFT to force a square rectangle - snap to known side/desired distance - Reshape Tool/parallel mode - snap to rectangle - delete rectangle Maybe a Circle would be faster but I would need to first search for the circle Icon in my custom palette. (I never need Circles) I do it all the time that way ... like placing a helper cube to get an auto plane for location and orientation of the rotate tool or such things.

By default, since VW 2023, Unified View is ON and Screen Plane is gone. If you would need it the old way, there is a Tab in File Settings : "2D Legacy" If you enable legacy mode, you get back access to Screen Plane and UV. Then you can again activate the UV Icon in Top Bar to switch ON/OFF if neded. Also if you open Files, that have any UV OFF settings or use screen plane, 2D Legacy will be activated automatically.

All geometry screen plane !? Are you working 2D only and Top Plan mode in YX plane (= Layer Plane) only ? Screen aligned Plane allowed you to draw 2D objects in e.g. a Front or Side View. (But AFAIK there was no control of the depth or 3rd dimension, at least for 3D objects) Now in VW 2022 where screen plane is deprecated (and hidden by default) there are 2 new Plane Icons in the Top Bar. The right one in pink, when activated works like screen plane did in the past for drawing. Although the result is that objects will be defined as using a 3D plane. That is how I understood. Maybe someone knows better.

I checked my (migrated) VW 2022 Templates and 2D Legacy is OFF. But my project File is not. I tried all Forum advices to custom search and reset screen plane to layer plane on my clients 2D underlay file too. But without success. a) some objects will switch back to screen plane after I tried to change anyway. b) most screen plane setups happen in Groups, no chance to open and edit all of these. Looks like VW 2022 automatically cares about SL Viewport Crop#s plane assignments. But my DLVP Reference's crop always switch back after I set them to layer plane. I also checked all Saved Views for Unified View OFF Settings (did not have these though) I think we have to wait for VW 2025 release that we will get a new Purge Option to get rid of any UV OFF or screen plane settings deleted/converted. But at least to know that Screen Plane in VW is officially deprecated, make me feel already better 🙂

BTW, does VW run well directly on real Windows for ARM devices ? If, then the rest would be just Parallels or VMware not offering proper GPU faking support. DirectX in that case. My VM Ware and Parallels experience is a bit dated. I ran my Microstation via VMware and later via Parallels (2007-2009 ?) to avoid Bootcamp and be able work on OSX. At that time it was still OpenGL. But my experience was that VMware was super slow in general and OpenGL support was not enough to run Microstation reasonably enough, while Parallels was much faster generally and offered sufficient OpenGL performance for realistic 3D working on larger projects. But what did not work nevertheless ... older legacy OpenGL features like e.g. full screen crosshair cursor did slow Microstation down unrealistically. (Unfortunately I worked that way for half a year until I finally figured that out ...) So I think for support, running VW on Windows a) on a VM and b) with an extra ARM X86 emulation may add some extra layers of unreliability.

I haven't managed that too. AFAIK there are already some threads. Maybe you have still some SLVPs in your Template (But I think they are save although they had screen plane crops before migration) I have to say that my Templates, re-done in VW 2021 (?) are 2D legacy clean. But not my Project File (also done already in VW 2021) Not sure about my referenced DLVP underlays ..... I can't switch their Crop Plane. It looks like I could switch but when I re-enter Crop it is back on screen plane. Also I am not able to even switch any screen plane-ed objects in my referenced source file, delivered by clients. If I do a custom search for (screen)plane, it shows thousands of screen plane objects. but it doesn't select any of these. And it looks like you would have to enter each Group manually to convert objects to layer plane- which is impractical in that case. I am even not sure if VW would accept me switching the plane reliably in this case. And so far I did not try if my Project File would allow me to finally deactivate 2D legacy, if I would delete the 2D legacy effected Reference .... If VW 2022 is advertised as ScreenPlane free + Unified View always ON (And BTW - I want "hide Layers with different Scale" to be OFF too as default of course) I want all my Files 2D Legacy Clean !!!

I activated 2D legacy and Screen Plane and played with it. I still don't get how Screen Plane helps in any way. Indeed, the start point of a screen plane rectangle stays at its initial point. But no idea how this could help me with a helper 2D construction derived from 2D Top Plan View in a Side View .... When I activate the Back View of a Side View, the helper geometry will even appear mirrored !? Sorry, I think I am out at this point. I stay in my 3D space and layer plane for 2.5D. Screen Plane is now hidden for me, which I appreciate, while still accessible for all others, by 2D legacy activation, so I promise - to try - to no more question Screen Plane (Or Unified View OFF or Crop Perspective, or ...)

No chance here .... It finds thousands of screen plane objects but does not select them, so I can't switch them. I tried to switch options in custom search ON/OFF selectively already. No Selection. I deleted all Saved Views "preserve Unified View" in their Settings too. Also VW mocks about VP Annotations being Screen Plane. But I do not find any SP Annotations in my SLVPs. Maybe in DLVPs ? I think it is mainly about the referenced 2D underlay VWX from clients. But even when I open that file and try everything - I don't get 2D legacy away. I could select some individual screen plane objects there by Magic Wand in Plane Mode and switch these. But for me it looks like anything in hierarchic Groups is not accessible for Plane Mode switching - and there are a lot of groups in use ..... And it looks like I can't even reliably switch DLVP Crops to Layer Plane. They will switch back to Screen Plane when I select them again ....