INTERIOR WALL - FIT TO CEILING

[Todd W]

I have an interior wall I am trying to fit to the underside of the ceiling. I use 'Fit walls to Objects' and try to select the ceiling (which is a roof style) and have clip walls selected but it does not help. When I try to 'Associate this wall with the roof style' the ceiling pulls away from the outside wall and aligns with this wall, which I do not want. See image. What am I doing wrong and how to fix? Thank you in advance.

 

 

[rDesign]

It looks like you already have three interior walls being clipped by your ceiling.; unless there are other interior walls that are not behaving as the three in your image. We may need some additional information.

Edited September 26, 2023 by rDesign

[Tom W.]

5 hours ago, Todd W said:

I have an interior wall I am trying to fit to the underside of the ceiling. I use 'Fit walls to Objects' and try to select the ceiling (which is a roof style) and have clip walls selected but it does not help. When I try to 'Associate this wall with the roof style' the ceiling pulls away from the outside wall and aligns with this wall, which I do not want. See image. What am I doing wrong and how to fix? Thank you in advance.

 

 

 

Be best to post a file as bit hard to tell from the description what's going on. You're saying that the middle Wall which runs parallel with the ridge isn't being clipped by the Roof? What is 'Associate this wall with the roof style'? Do you mean 'Pick Walls to Associate...' in the 'Wall Clipping' drop-down for the Roof? Is this in VW2024? Have you tried the file in VW2023?

 

There are occasions where 'Fit Walls to Objects...' has failed to give the desired results + I resort to reshaping the Wall manually using the Edit Wall Tool. Likewise I sometimes resort to creating a 'false' Roof on a hidden layer solely for the purposes of clipping a Wall if for some reason I can't get it to work with the 'real' Roof. But it sounds like you have something else going on if the ceiling Slab is being moved/reshaped by the process, hence be good to establish if it's a problem confined to VW2024 or is happening in earlier versions too. 

[Tobias Kern]

Hi,

 

helpful is to use two different roofs.

One for connecting the interior-walls and

one for connecting the exterior-walls.

 

We (here in Germany) often split slabs to

a load-bearing slab-style and a non-load-bearing slab-style.

 

This technique is adapted to roofs in my attached file.

Idea and credits goes to: DomC (CH)! 

 

If you use this technique, you can achieve perfect wall/roof-connections.

Please see my attached file (VW 2022) and the video from DomC

(German).

 

22-07-26 Dach Test.vwx

 

Greetings from oversea

Tobi

[Todd W]

Thanks all - adding a second Roof style for the purposes of clipping the interior walls seems to work, but it also seems I have a few things going on. Please see the image and attached file (V2023). I cannot seem to figure out how to get the wall caps to slope with the wall, and the last time I tried clipping the interior wall running parallel with the building a portion of the gypsum board disappeared.

SAMPLE COTTAGE v2023.vwx

[David S]

Hi Todd that's very odd.

 

I frequently use the FWTO tool and find it very useful and generally very user friendly. That said by nature of it's accuracy it is very also sensitive and as an aside I would observe several things:-

 

If the accuracy of the roof (or whatever object/s it is being asked to join) is not near- perfect (ie a gap in the apex join)  it will spot it! and the wall will stick out above the eg Apex. Fair play.

On occasion it seems to "remember" previous nodes/points of the re-shaped walls and refuses to accurately re-shape itself. The fix is to "remove" these by deleting the top wall peaks and starting again.

And finally it also gets confused if your new wall was 5000mm high and you need it re-shaped below eg 1800mm and it doesn't understand the instruction. Best to reduce the wall height to lower than the the lowest desired wall peak and this seems to fix the issue

 

Hope this helps

 

[rDesign]

@Todd W - If you’re referring to this wall (circled in the image below), I don’t believe that you’ll be able to get the top of that wall to slope to match the roof pitch. The tops of walls which are fit to the underside of a roof won’t slope when they’re perpendicular to the roof pitch.

 

If it were me, I would drop the framing component of that wall down enough so that you could add a Framing member representing a 2x top plate with a shaped top 2x member - or however you would like it constructed.

Edited September 27, 2023 by rDesign

[line-weight]

Yes it's one of the limitations of walls that their tops can't be sloped perpendicular to their centre line.

 

Arguably this matches real world construction to some extent.

 

So you have to manually add shaped top plates, and/or offset the tops of components that represent inner and outer finishes.

[Tom W.]

2 minutes ago, line-weight said:

Yes it's one of the limitations of walls that their tops can't be sloped perpendicular to their centre line.

 

You can if you clip these walls with the roof which is what I think @Todd W is talking about + what @Tobias Kern demonstrates in his excellent model

[Tobias Kern]

Hi rDesign,

 

greetings.

 

Sloping the wall in the blue circle is achievable with the technique

I mentioned above.

 

In my test-file you see, every wall is sloped to direction the 2nd roof (the interior roof).

I tried to draw walls in various directions and all walls fit perfect to the roof. The walls cut
the roof perfect with the settings I made in the styles. 

 

The shape of the interior-roof is defined by the inner side of the outer-walls. 

 

You can also use a dummy-roof with just one component with 0,00001 cm (components with

a value of 0 cm aren't possible) to clip the walls.

 

Attached some screenshots from the inner-roof connected with inner-walls.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tom W.]

2 minutes ago, Tobias Kern said:

You can also use a dummy-roof with just one component with 0,00001 cm (components with

a value of 0 cm aren't possible) to clip the walls.

 

Or use Roof Faces on a hidden layer for the same purpose

[rDesign]

@Tobias Kern - thank you, I stand corrected. I didn’t open your file but only watched the video you posted, but since I don’t speak German I probably missed the point of what DomC was demonstrating. I’ll have to give that technique a try. I learned something new today - thank you!

Edited September 27, 2023 by rDesign

[Tobias Kern]

Hi rDesign,

 

that's what we are here for, to learn from each other!

The VW community is great. ❤️!

 

For me, the tow-roof-technique helped me much,

I learned that sometimes you have to think around

the corner and be creative with the given tools.

 

But I hope also, we can get an improvement for the roof-tool,

that we don't have to use two roofs anymore to get perfect

roof/wall fittings.

 

Greetings from Germany and have a nice week.

Tobi

[Todd W]

HI All - Thanks for the help! I tried the method described by Tom and Tobias, creating a second (or dummy roof) and trying to clip this wall. I tried a few times but could not get the wall to clip to the roof - it always shows as a level top with the center of the wall stopping at the point of the roof. You can see from the pic that the outer walls were clipped fine to the original roof.

 

For now I have gone with offsetting the outer side of gypsum board and I will fill in a beveled top stud in the section - picture below.

[Tom W.]

What VW version are you using? If VW2024 I would try it in VW2023.

 

 

 

 

[Todd W]

Thanks - still in VW2023

[Tom W.]

Hmm ok scratch that theory then (it didn't look like the roof clipping was working in Tobias' file when I opened it in VW2024 but I didn't hang around to investigate further: it was fine in VW2023). You are associating the relevant wall with the roof + telling the relevant roof components to clip the wall...? And it's not doing anything? I don't bother using Fit Walls to Objects I just raise the wall the required height manually (i.e. enough that it is fully buried in the roof).

[Todd W]

I was fitting the wall to the object (roof) then associating it with the roof. Is that backward? I tied it the other way and it still did not work. Is it possible i've mixed up the order of the commands such that I've permanently confused VW? (ha ha)

[Tom W.]

No I don't think the order you perform the commands matters. The main thing is to associate the wall to the roof (in the roof settings) + specify which roof components you want to clip the wall, which you want to be clipped by the wall + which will ignore the wall. You can do all of this with the wall height such that it is below the level of the roof + has no contact with it if you wanted, then when you raise it the clipping will take effect. I just prefer to raise the wall in the OIP rather than using Fit Walls to Objects because FWTO doesn't raise it high enough then you have to guess the embedding depth...

[Tobias Kern]

Hi,

 

my test-file was from VW 2022.

 

I opened it with VW 2024 and it seems that something is going wrong with 2024.

I need to investigate what may be causing the problem and fill out a bug report.

 

Greetings

Tobi

[Tobias Kern]

This is what I get with my settings in VW 2024.  

 

[Todd W]

Thanks Tom, and thanks also Tobi. Tom, I will try your order of things - it makes sense to me. I originally opened this file in 2024 but got quite a few bugs so switched back to 2023. I will let you know what I get when I re-try this with your order. I am (sort-of) happy with the workaround but would be nice to get this figured out as it is something I will be doing A LOT of.

[Tom W.]

13 minutes ago, Tobias Kern said:

This is what I get with my settings in VW 2024.  

 

 

Yep that's what I saw too...☹️

[Tobias Kern]

Hi,

 

no luck with all settings I tried so far.

I also tried to rebuild the whole situation in VW 2024
with new walls and roof or roof-face.

… it must be a bug!

 

Greetings

Tobi

[Tom W.]

Calling @Matt Panzer... 🙂