We need a faster way to relocate a section cut line (starting from its associated section viewport)

[line-weight]

Often I'll be looking at a section viewport, on a sheet layer, and realise I need to change the position of the section line that generates it.

 

Doing this is tedious - unless I'm missing some quicker way of doing it.

 

Many of my section viewports don't have an associated section line on an "active" viewport within the drawing set.

 

My process is:

 

- select the viewport

- go to the OIP

-scroll to the bottom

- press "section line instances"

- select "viewports"

- find what I call my "section control viewport" in the list

- put a tick next to it

- press "activate"

- zoom out and find the section line, in the annotation space of this big mess of a viewport which is where I keep an instance of any section line I've used/want to adjust

- move that line to where I want it, wit some difficulty, because that viewport might not clearly show the objects I want to position the section cut relative to

- exit the annotations

- try and remember which sheet the section viewport was on, find it in the list and go back there.

 

What I'd like:

 

- right-click on the viewport

- get an option "relocate section line" and select it

- be taken to an orthogonal view of the model, showing only layers & classes contained within the viewport I've come from, with the section line clearly highlighted and ready to be moved

- move it

- click "return to viewport".

Edited September 8, 2023 by line-weight

[E|FA]

16 minutes ago, line-weight said:

don't have an associated section line on an "active" viewport within the drawing set

It sounds like we have a similar workaround.  I have a "<virtual>" Sheet Layer that I use as the primary placement for Section & Elevation Markers.  If & when I need to move a marker, I choose which layers I need to see at the time.  I voted for your suggestion as it would be an improved workflow.

[bcd]

The Section Lines can be activated on the Design Layer & naturally you can Class them so that they only appear when needed. Then in the SL Right Click>Edit Design Layer on the Section Viewport & you should be in control of the SVP Cut line (oddly named the Section Elevation Line in the OIP) with all the appropriate visibillities.

Edited September 8, 2023 by bcd

[Tom W.]

1 hour ago, line-weight said:

What I'd like:

 

- right-click on the viewport

- get an option "relocate section line" and select it

- be taken to an orthogonal view of the model, showing only layers & classes contained within the viewport I've come from, with the section line clearly highlighted and ready to be moved

- move it

- click "return to viewport".

 

So you mean rather than be taken to a section line instance, you enter a special section line edit mode? A kind of master section line that only exists in this edit mode + is independent of the section line instances... This would actually work really well because presumably it would then free you up to edit the individual section line instances independently of the defining section line i.e. change their length, size, etc without affecting the 'master' section line from which they all derive...

[bcd]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean. There is just one section line definition but it can be active in any or all Viewports & Design Layers. I'm just suggesting that you have it also active in a DL and get to it via the Edit Design Layer option of the SVP. There you move, resize it etc. with all the correct Layer & Class visibillites of the SVP.

[Tom W.]

Yes sorry you're correct I'm conflating @line-weight's wish with some other things that have been requested elsewhere: namely that rather than having one SL definition that is active in multiple locations, have one definition + the rest be instances which can be edited without affecting the others. It struck me that @line-weight's idea (if I understood it correctly) meant that the definition resided in a dedicated location (edit group) + you could have as few or as many instances elsewhere as you wanted (or none at all).

 

My issue is that I want the same section line to be different sizes (scales) in different locations + be able to tweak the marker positions without affecting the section VP itself (+ without having to create an unlinked section line).

[bcd]

14 minutes ago, Tom W. said:

My issue is that I want the same section line to be different sizes (scales) in different locations + be able to tweak the marker positions without affecting the section VP itself (+ without having to create an unlinked section line).

Gottcha, I can see how being able to resize / relocate the marker could be useful - even vary the extents of the section cut of the section line. Sounds like a Wish for the Wishlist.

[Tom W.]

46 minutes ago, bcd said:

Sounds like a Wish for the Wishlist.

 

Here it is:

 

[Matt Overton]

Yes please, 

It strikes me as odd section viewports can't just be double-clicked to get the the section line like a perspective view has navigation to the camera as an option.

[line-weight]

On 9/8/2023 at 7:59 PM, bcd said:

The Section Lines can be activated on the Design Layer & naturally you can Class them so that they only appear when needed. Then in the SL Right Click>Edit Design Layer on the Section Viewport & you should be in control of the SVP Cut line (oddly named the Section Elevation Line in the OIP) with all the appropriate visibillities.

 

So I would go to the design layer, and then use a saved view to make the section lines visible, something like that? But I don't think the relevant section line would be ready selected for me, and I end up with tens or hundreds of section lines as a drawing progresses.

 

You've made me realise though, that there's a variation in my current process I describe in my OP, activating the section line in a design layer rather than a viewport, something like this:

 

- select the viewport

- go to the OIP

- scroll to the bottom

- press "section line instances"

- select "viewports" leave "design layers" selected

- find what I call my "section control viewport" in the list a convenient design layer

- put a tick next to it

- press "activate"

- zoom out and find the section line, in the annotation space of this big mess of a viewport which is where I keep an instance of any section line I've used/want to adjust

- I am taken to a design layer view (not totally clear on what determines what layers/classes are visible in this view??) and the section line is already selected for me

- seems I may need to change projection to an appropriate one (if I am presented with a side view, say, when I want a top view)

- move that line to where I want it, wit some difficulty, because that viewport might not clearly show the objects I want to position the section cut relative to possibly still with some difficulty because layers/classes that I don't actually want might be visible

- exit the annotations

- try and remember which sheet the section viewport was on, find it in the list and go back there.

 

This is possibly slightly less tedious, but will need to try it for a while to see how it goes in practice.

 

[line-weight]

On 9/8/2023 at 8:05 PM, Tom W. said:

 

So you mean rather than be taken to a section line instance, you enter a special section line edit mode? A kind of master section line that only exists in this edit mode + is independent of the section line instances... This would actually work really well because presumably it would then free you up to edit the individual section line instances independently of the defining section line i.e. change their length, size, etc without affecting the 'master' section line from which they all derive...

Yes, exactly.

 

Like you say there is a separate but very related issue to do with "instances".

 

One of the problems that I have with my current system is that when the section line I want to edit does have an "instance" on a viewport on a publishable drawing sheet, it's various attributes are set to what I want it to look like there. That might for example mean that it's a gapped section line with end markers of a certain size - and its other instance that I am trying to edit in my "section line control" viewport is then difficult to find and grab hold of.

[Matt Overton]

14 hours ago, line-weight said:

Yes, exactly.

 

Like you say there is a separate but very related issue to do with "instances".

 

One of the problems that I have with my current system is that when the section line I want to edit does have an "instance" on a viewport on a publishable drawing sheet, it's various attributes are set to what I want it to look like there. That might for example mean that it's a gapped section line with end markers of a certain size - and its other instance that I am trying to edit in my "section line control" viewport is then difficult to find and grab hold of.

Maybe the system of how section lines get onto drawing sheets is wrong?

 

Ok, not maybe it is wrong. Like Grids in all directions, it should be something less troublesome, certainly less box-ticking.  Indeed, it is something that is almost automatic to the point we should only need to touch it by exception. each section has a 3D in the model if the section of another viewport cuts that plane it should show in the viewport unless there is a rule to remove it, like only showing sections of a certain scale range. 

[Boh]

Adding to the mix that if you want different size style markers for the same section in different views you can use a data tag as a section line label instead of the actual section line marker. This also allows the marker to move anywhere you want which can be useful on busy drawings.

[Tom W.]

4 hours ago, Boh said:

Adding to the mix that if you want different size style markers for the same section in different views you can use a data tag as a section line label instead of the actual section line marker. This also allows the marker to move anywhere you want which can be useful on busy drawings.

 

Can you explain? You mean you've created a Data Tag that graphically resembles your Section-Elevation Line which you insert in Label Mode as a 'dumb' marker? 

 

What I do is copy the Section-Elevation Line, delete the original then paste the copy in place. This effectively removes the link to the section VP allowing you to change the scale, move the markers + enable/disable 'Use Gapped Line' without affecting other 'instances' of the same section line elsewhere or the section VP itself. You can then relink the line to the section VP if you want to reinstate the auto-coordination with the VP: in the process the section line will remain an 'instance' rather than a 'definition'.

 

But it would be better if all this happened automatically + for the duplicate section line instances to be present in the Section Line Instances dialog (which they currently aren't).

[line-weight]

7 hours ago, Matt Overton said:

Maybe the system of how section lines get onto drawing sheets is wrong?

 

Ok, not maybe it is wrong. Like Grids in all directions, it should be something less troublesome, certainly less box-ticking.  Indeed, it is something that is almost automatic to the point we should only need to touch it by exception. each section has a 3D in the model if the section of another viewport cuts that plane it should show in the viewport unless there is a rule to remove it, like only showing sections of a certain scale range. 

Yes, I think it's been discussed in other threads previously that the way grid lines work, already provides quite a good template for how section lines could be managed.

 

I'm not sure I'd want all section lines to show automatically - unless the rules to exclude them were very reliable & flexible. The majority of my sections don't have "live" instances in viewports.

[Tom W.]

34 minutes ago, line-weight said:

Yes, I think it's been discussed in other threads previously that the way grid lines work, already provides quite a good template for how section lines could be managed.

 

Indeed:

 

[Boh]

On 9/11/2023 at 5:46 PM, Tom W. said:

Can you explain? You mean you've created a Data Tag that graphically resembles your Section-Elevation Line which you insert in Label Mode as a 'dumb' marker? 

I have a section line style that has no markers and a few different data tag styles that substitute as section line markers. The section lines can define or link to the section view with different markers for each section line as required. 

[shorter]

On 9/10/2023 at 8:58 AM, Matt Overton said:

Yes please, 

It strikes me as odd section viewports can't just be double-clicked to get the the section line like a perspective view has navigation to the camera as an option.

It really should be as easy to navigate from a viewport as it is to navigate to a viewport.

 

Right click on Viewport and 'Navigate to Section Line'.  That's how the competition does it.

[Tom W.]

6 hours ago, shorter said:

It really should be as easy to navigate from a viewport as it is to navigate to a viewport.

 

Right click on Viewport and 'Navigate to Section Line'.  That's how the competition does it.

 

Another reason for there being a single defining section line otherwise how would VW know which one to navigate to when you have several? This is why you currently have to do it via Section Line Instances in order to specify which SL you want to go to.

[shorter]

You have one section line per section viewport, surely?

[Tom W.]

2 minutes ago, shorter said:

You have one section line per section viewport, surely?

 

Often not e.g. a series of section VPs spread over two or three sheets with each sheet displaying a small scale 'key' plan containing section lines for all of the section VPs

[line-weight]

13 minutes ago, Tom W. said:

 

Often not e.g. a series of section VPs spread over two or three sheets with each sheet displaying a small scale 'key' plan containing section lines for all of the section VPs

 

Or, very commonly, you want to show the same section line in the same place over multiple floor plans of a multi-storey building.

[Tom W.]

Just now, line-weight said:

 

Or, very commonly, you want to show the same section line in the same place over multiple floor plans of a multi-storey building.

 

Yes that's an even better example!

[Boh]

This is why on my sections sheet I often place a reference plan off the sheet page which displays instances of the section lines for sections on that sheet. So I can quickly jump back and forth between section and section line.

[shorter]

19 hours ago, Tom W. said:

 

Often not e.g. a series of section VPs spread over two or three sheets with each sheet displaying a small scale 'key' plan containing section lines for all of the section VPs

What I mean is, each section viewport has a single section line associated to it, or should.  Right click, ‘navigate to section line’ should be sufficient to take you to the section line instance.

 

of course, if you have copied the section viewport and it has no section line… that’s another story.

[shorter]

19 hours ago, line-weight said:

 

Or, very commonly, you want to show the same section line in the same place over multiple floor plans of a multi-storey building.

Place it in a design layer.