3Dconnexion SpaceMouse - Reversed Axes, Roll Left/Right

[Mark Aceto]

After learning subdivision modeling, I immediately bought a SpaceMouse Enterprise. BTW the subdivision gum ball needs to be an option in all object selection modes (like Rhino, Cinema R24, etc). I can't believe that funntionality has existed in VW for years without existing everywhere in VW.

 

I finally figured out how rotate an object in 3D using Target Camera Mode. However... 

1. Compared to the demo 3DC Trainer app, all axes are reversed in VW: up is down, left is right, pushing in is pulling out... 
2. From what I understand, VW doesn't support rolling left/right. Please tell me that's not the case anymore because that's the whole point of "6 degrees of freedom"
3. Also, I guess there's no hope of tool icons for Mac users because 3DC just hasn't been able to solve that feat of engineering in the past 4+ years

Edited June 1, 2021 by Mark Aceto

[Mark Aceto]

On 1/1/2023 at 11:20 AM, maxjonesdesign said:

@Tom W. Without that ‘Switch Navigation’ command accessible… the SpaceMouse doesn’t seem to offer much in VW currently. 
 

I can only seem to manipulate it in 2 or 3 axis (all currently backwards?)… with no Zoom/Spin. Ideal 🙂

 

Quick question… What command/setting would I need to run to get ‘Orbit/Flyover’ on the CAD Mouse MMB? (rather than using the keyboard shortcut)

 

Thanks

 

Just pulled the ole Spacemouse out of the drawer for the annual test if it's still useless only to discover that either macOS, VW or 3DC have removed the UI to control Navigation Modes (replaced with "Fit" to object). Screenshots below for both Spacemouse and Cadmouse. "Fit" is the only option available for Application Command.

 

@Luis M RuizI'm happy to submit a bug report for this but I'm not sure who's responsible for removing this essential functionality. Is that a VW bug?

 

Here's what I found from a quick research: https://forum.3dconnexion.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=52665

 

[Tom W.]

This is what I was told by 3DC on 17 March:

 

"Unfortunately, we will need a little more time to test it. We need to reproduce the issue. I thought that getting this license in our company will be easier but is not."

 

They do not have a copy of VW2023 to troubleshoot what's going on + on 17 Mar at least were struggling to get hold of one.

 

I need to chase but thought I'd give the poor woman a break from me pestering her about it as according to her it's a VW issue rather than 3DC.

 

I have asked @Luis M Ruiz a couple of times what the score is but no answer. Come on Luis! It was on your personal recommendation that I bought a SpaceMouse in the first place! 😞

 

For the record, I had no issues in VW2022. It was only since moving to VW2023 that things went awry.

 

13 minutes ago, Lunar Waneshaft said:

@Luis M RuizI'm happy to submit a bug report for this but I'm not sure who's responsible for removing this essential functionality. Is that a VW bug?

 

It would be great if VW could liaise directly with 3DC + try to get to the bottom of this. And if 3DC need a copy of VW2023 in order to see what's gone wrong please give it to them!

[Jeff Prince]

Funny, the space mouse works fine in all the other software I use…. Would be nice if it started working in VWX again.

[Mark Aceto]

49 minutes ago, Tom W. said:

For the record, I had no issues in VW2022. It was only since moving to VW2023 that things went awry.

 

VW 22:

[Mark Aceto]

29 minutes ago, jeff prince said:

Funny, the space mouse works fine in all the other software I use…. Would be nice if it started working in VWX again.

 

On Mac? Which apps? I just checked all of the other apps, and they looked the same.

 

About to check on on Windows... 

[Tom W.]

42 minutes ago, Lunar Waneshaft said:

 

VW 22:

 

Sorry what exactly are you saying is happening for you? For me, I have 'Switch Navigation' mapped to the MMB of my CadMouse Pro + in previous VW it worked fine but come VW2023 despite the mapping being the same...

 

 

...in reality what the MMB does is Fit to Objects instead. But for you you're saying Switch Navigation isn't even an option under Application Command mapping? Which driver are you on? As per my post on the 3DC forum, I tried the most recent driver at 3DC's recommendation + things were even worse. I had to revert to the two versions old driver in order to have something remotely useable...

[Mark Aceto]

14 minutes ago, Tom W. said:

But for you you're saying Switch Navigation isn't even an option under Application Command mapping? Which driver are you on?

 

Correct.

 

15 minutes ago, Tom W. said:

Which driver are you on?

 

 

16 minutes ago, Tom W. said:

As per my post on the 3DC forum, I tried the most recent driver at 3DC's recommendation + things were even worse. I had to revert to the two versions old driver in order to have something remotely useable...

 

Ah... I didn't see that. I'll try that next... 

[Mark Aceto]

1 hour ago, Lunar Waneshaft said:

About to check on on Windows... 

 

Latest Windows driver still has everything. God, I'm going to miss Bootcamp... 

 

[Tom W.]

3 minutes ago, Lunar Waneshaft said:

 

Correct.

 

 

 

 

Ah... I didn't see that. I'll try that next... 

 

This is me:

 

So 'all' that isn't working for me is:

 

- 'Switch Navigation' is instead giving me 'Fit to Objects'

- 'Fit View' is instead giving me 'Top View'

 

But on most recent drivers I had a TON of horrible stuff happening

[Mark Aceto]

Getting warmer (but also stuck)... 

 

Stepping down from 10.8 to 10.7 brought the menu command back:'

 

 

However, it looks like that was a major version, and there's a point update (presumably with bug fixes):

 

Clicking the Download Now... button brings me to the main driver download page with no access to 10.7.4 (which may or may not work better than 10.7.0).

 

These guys have the absolute worst QC in my world. I'm sick of their attitude (especially toward Mac CAD vs Windows CAM users), and I'm not hopeful that Logitech owning them will improve things over there.

 

My only hope is that it appears that their patent expired this year, so we can get some decent products from other manufacturers.

 

BTW does anyone know why VW cannot roll? Would be great to get the advertised "6 degrees of freedom" instead of five.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mark Aceto]

33 minutes ago, Tom W. said:

So 'all' that isn't working for me is:

 

- 'Switch Navigation' is instead giving me 'Fit to Objects'

- 'Fit View' is instead giving me 'Top View'

 

But on most recent drivers I had a TON of horrible stuff happening

 

Same. So did 10.7.4 fix that or do I need to step down to 10.6.X ?

[Mark Aceto]

Welp, if the solution workaround is going back to a 2-year old driver (10.6), there's my answer: nothing has improved since the last time I tested it a year ago.

 

Still useless; going back in the drawer.

 

See ya in a year!

(definition of insanity)

[Tom W.]

11 minutes ago, Lunar Waneshaft said:

 

Same. So did 10.7.4 fix that or do I need to step down to 10.6.X ?

 

On 10.7.0 everything worked perfectly on VW2022. On VW2023 I have the two issues listed above. 3DC said I needed to upgrade to the most recent driver (stupid!) but when I did things were considerably worse, so I beat a hasty retreat back to 10.7.0... I guess if @Luis M Ruiz isn't going to offer any comment I will need to submit a bug + hope someone responds there.

[Jeff Prince]

2 hours ago, Lunar Waneshaft said:

On Mac? Which apps? I just checked all of the other apps, and they looked the same.

 

Mac Monterey 3DxWare 10.7.4

Google Earth

Blender(axes flipped, left 3D click to access the config and fix)

Rhino (axes flipped, just have to change)

Vectorworks (can do some basic flying around, but it used to work so much better)

 

I would really like it to work with Affinity Photo on the Mac, or incredible if it could work with Procreate and the Ipad.

Imagine using it as a dial to change brush size, XY panning across a canvas, zooming, toggling thru brushes or colors.  There are so many possibilities for these devices, but support always falls short.  Microsoft had that cool Studio dial and ever since I've been wanting.

 

I rarely use my Spacemouse anymore except for Google Earth navigation because just when things get to working, something breaks it again.  Using it with google earth is like flying and can make very nice videos.

[Jeff Prince]

1 hour ago, Lunar Waneshaft said:

My only hope is that it appears that their patent expired this year, so we can get some decent products from other manufacturers.

 

BTW does anyone know why VW cannot roll? Would be great to get the advertised "6 degrees of freedom" instead of five.

 

https://naya.tech

 

Wow, that naya keyboard really looks promising.  Dual track and dial in the middle?  That makes so much more sense ergonomically for me compared to the opposite situation I have going on ... Spacemouse not he Left, Keyboard in the middle, track ball on the right with no practical space for a numeric keypad.  I would buy that with excitement.

...and probably be disappointed once it stopped being supported like so many specialty input devices.

 

I had a Microsoft gaming controller that was designed for real time strategy games a long time ago. It could pan XY and twist, plus it had a ton of buttons to assign to macros.  A guy wrote a drive for it to use in windows xp and CAD & Rhino back in the day, the ultimate poor man's 3D mouse, it was under $50 IIRC.

 

I just have to be happy with a trackball and Apple Pencil.  Abandon the dream of having input devices that actually work as fast as we do.

[Mark Aceto]

5 minutes ago, jeff prince said:

https://naya.tech

 

Wow, that naya keyboard really looks promising.  Dual track and dial in the middle?  That makes so much more sense ergonomically for me compared to the opposite situation I have going on ... Spacemouse not he Left, Keyboard in the middle, track ball on the right with no practical space for a numeric keypad.  I would buy that with excitement.

 

I made the $10 downpayment before it launches on Kickstarter just in case I'd like the discount because it ain't gonna be cheap. Here's a link if you're feeling adventurous: https://naya.tech/pages/reservation

 

I fell down the custom keyboard rabbit hole about a year ago, and it's a very unique bubble compared to other tech. The short answer is that a lot of the tech is open source and the parts are standardized, so it's less about being afraid of McCorporation is going to stop supporting a proprietary product or deprecating functionality, and more about paying a premium for a boutique product that's very well made. In fact, I hear the keyboard hobby exploded when the Cherry MX switch patent expired, so hopefully the same will happen with 3D mice.

 

[Mark Aceto]

Also, a little more info from Naya (and they have a Discord too):

 

 

[Jeff Prince]

31 minutes ago, Lunar Waneshaft said:

more about paying a premium for a boutique product that's very well made.

 

I'm happy to part with my dollars for things of beauty or functionality, it's a wise investment when an object is both.

Bicycles are my indulgence, maybe I'll add a nice keyboard to list 🙂

 

edit: just gave them my $10. Curious to see if all the parts will be available at release and how much the extras will amount to.

 

Edited May 13, 2023 by jeff prince

[Mark Aceto]

2 hours ago, jeff prince said:

3DxWare 10.7.4

 

You wouldn't happen to have that installer, would ya? The only one I saved was 10.6.7 (but I'll be saving them all from now on).

 

2 hours ago, jeff prince said:

Spacemouse not he Left, Keyboard in the middle, track ball on the right with no practical space for a numeric keypad.

 

I've replaced my collection of numpads with a Stream Deck XL that lives "northwest" of the keyboard. There are some tradeoffs but I'm adapting, and it's growing on me... 

 

1 hour ago, jeff prince said:

Bicycles are my indulgence

 

Godspeed. (Been there.)

 

1 hour ago, jeff prince said:

maybe I'll add a nice keyboard to list

 

Here's the entrance to the rabbit hole: https://www.keychron.com

 

Coming from years on a Mac, start with low profile but also check out the southpaw (numpad on the left) and split (numpad in the middle?) models. 75% and TKL layouts are the sweet spot. Mac switches have an "early tactile bump" (typically brown or purple in the wild). The nice thing about keyboards is that they're pretty simple (PCB, plate, stabs, switches, keycaps), so they're hard to f--k up. And you can remap pretty much every key with QMK / VIA. Also, make use of Amazon's 30-day return policy.

[Jeff Prince]

3 hours ago, Lunar Waneshaft said:

You wouldn't happen to have that installer, would ya? The only one I saved was 10.6.7 (but I'll be saving them all from now on).

 

I just looked and all I have stored is 3DxWareMac_v10-6-6_r3234.dmg

 

Weird, I just checked their website and my version I am currently using is not on the web archive!

I bet you could write them to get a copy, they have been pretty helpful for me in the past.

If they won't, send them a link to this thread and warn them of the pitchfork wielding mob preparing to march on Connecticut.

 

Thanks of all the advice and ideas on the keyboards and such posted here and elsewhere, it's very helpful.

[Mark Aceto]

20 minutes ago, jeff prince said:

march on Connecticut.

I thought those Massholes were in Cambridge. “Let’s go beat up some smahties!”

[Tom W.]

14 hours ago, Lunar Waneshaft said:

@Luis M RuizI'm happy to submit a bug report for this but I'm not sure who's responsible for removing this essential functionality. Is that a VW bug?

 

I have just submitted a bug + chased 3DC about it as well.

[zoomer]

16 hours ago, Lunar Waneshaft said:

My only hope is that it appears that their patent expired this year, so we can get some decent products from other manufacturers.

 

That is good news 🙂

[Tom W.]

3DC EU have come back + said they are still waiting to receive a 2023 license from VW in order to see for themselves the commands which aren't working...

 

In the meantime they have asked me to try out the new driver 10.8.0 + see whether the issues persist there. Will do so later today but don't hold out much hope + that will be another 3/4 hour of my time wasted...

[Tom W.]

Yep 10.8.0 was a disaster. What a waste of time. Back on 10.7.0...