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Originally posted by Peter van der Elst:

Bara -> Dank U wel (thank You) !! Will Renderworks 12 also be available? I'll keep an eye on the designexpess site!



Yes, RenderWorks will (of course) be available. If you want, you can subscribe to our e-newsletter. We send it out at least once a month, and we will include any VW related news. Subscribing can be done on our Dutch website (you can also use the French, but I assume you prefer Dutch).



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Originally posted by michael john williams:

I have had my VW architect and render works less than a year [4 months] and now version 12 comes out!

A bit annoying having to upgrade already.

I have heard this before:

Numbers 21:4-6 (New International Version)

They traveled from Mount Hor along the route to the Red Sea, to go around Edom. But the people grew impatient on the way; they spoke against God and against Moses, and said, "Why have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in the desert? There is no bread! There is no water! And we detest this miserable food!"

Then the LORD sent venomous snakes among them; they bit the people and many Israelites died.

Let this be a lesson. Buy and enjoy VW12, or NNA will send venomous snakes to bite you!

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To: mike m oz - you hit the nail on the head regarding the complexity of software development, and how other vendors (Autodesk, etc.) treat their customers.

To: the gripers - I assume everything you designed was dead perfect from the start. Any problems had to be someone else's fault. By the way MJW, what do you mean by "oritated"? Just a "bug" in the language?

The customer expects to get perfection at the lowest possible price. The provider is trying to make a profit. We have all been on both sides of this equation. In the end you always have the option of not purchasing the upgrade or taking your business elsewhere.

I've been a customer of both Autodesk & NNA since the mid nineties. I dropped out of the Autodesk universe three years ago - see Mike's comments above.

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You all rose to the bait. Good to hear you all but remember it is only the dedicated die hards use this site. Perhaps the question of VW improvements should be posted to the autoCAD die hards. I was only supporting some earlier comments.

Also I did not start the 'bug fix' comments.

And anything is possible - or we would still be with minicad!

Perhaps NNA need to sell 12 more with images, drawings, trial discs, rather than just words.

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Nice try but I'm afraid we are all a little to intelligent not see through your last post.

Its a poor retort to being soundly corrected on your previous remarks.

"Supporting early comments" - with what, certainly not with in-depth knowledge.

Just remember those so called "diehard" users the next time you have a Vectoworks or associated problem you want an answer to.

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Originally posted by michael john williams:

...but remember it is only the dedicated die hards use this site. Perhaps the question of VW improvements should be posted to the autoCAD die hards...

Actually, everyone on this site starts with zero postings. We were all "newbies" at one time. New members join all the time to ask questions. My hope is that they are made to feel welcome when they do.

What impressed me about this board is that nearly everyone is willing to help one another. That also includes the NNA people who are not officially bound to participate.

For me it is like one big happy family. What I just cannot figure out is why so many of your postings, Michael, are so negative. So frequently you are unhappy. It seems that you can always find something negative to say.

I tried to poke a little fun at you earlier. You remind me of the Israelites. They were freed from a life of slavery, yet they still found cause to complain.

I like VW, I like the people on this board, and I like the people at NNA of whom I have had contact with. For this reason I continue to use VW.

It seems to me that you should try a different software program, (you mention AutoCad). Perhaps then you would be happy. I would like to see you happy.

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I love the site and the program but I am not going to use the site to complement NNA - it is a technical board for sorting out technical problems. However Vectorworks is not perfect and never will be and certainly not if no one voices concerns / wish lists, etc. I appreciate the help I get from the 'die hard' users, but I reserve the right to say what I think - its called free speech - and I am not going to be drawn into any racist humour!

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At the risk of wasting my time I'm going to have one final crack at trying to get through to you and why you get the responses you do.

(My apologises in advance to fellow readers.)

Either you don't understand, don't want to understand or understand but cannot accept for whatever reason what is said to you.

This is a Nemetschek Tech Board, which means it's a Forum to discuss "all" Technical aspects of the program, where does it say this is a place just to moan, complain and blame Nemetschek for what either VW or you cannot do.

By discussion that means any aspect, good or bad about the program or how we all use it.

But by your own self addmission you "won't come hear to compliment NNA" but merely use it as a place to complain about NNA. Great attitude to have and if you use that as your yardstick in life I bet you get on really well... hmmm.

Sure you have freedom of speech, but when what you say is not correct you don't even have the good grace or strength of character to admit it when the facts are put to you and are corrected on them.

I think you'll find, if you care to look through the forum, many of the contributors who have given praise to NNA, praise where its due, have also voiced their concerns and criticisms at some point.

You lend your voice to the arguements about bug fixes, so tell me what ones have you personally discovered or experienced to have needed to get sorted so as to work, and I mean bugs not lack of knowledge or skill in using the program, bearing in mind the complexity of the program as a whole.

So you expect to come on this site, moan, usually without knowledge or substance to your arguement, try to insult those who correct your inaccurate statements and then expect us to help you ... great bit of logic there.

As for racist humour, what are you talking about?

You reserve the right to say what you think, and so do I - are you so lacking in intelligence you cannot see the quote for what it was.

I also reserve the right not to help you in future when you have a problem and seek advice, and with your stated attitude I'm sure I'm not alone.

Kevin has said exactly how and why I come to this site and respect nearly all the fellow members on it.

It will be a sad day when this Forum is populated by the likes of yourself just wanting to complain about NNA, not only do I hope never to see it happen, I won't, I'll be long gone !!


[ 10-18-2005, 12:20 PM: Message edited by: alanmac ]

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This is starting to get personnel and that is silly and I am not going to get drawn on that, but some points of Fact:

1. VW 11 was launched in the UK August / September 2004.

2. VW 11.5 was launched in the UK March 2005.

3. I have had, like a number of other people, a number of 'bugs' and identified as 'bugs' by NNA, which I will not go into now, but I hope they are sorted in 12.

4. NNA's UK reseller has still not confirmed the extra UK benefits / plug ins in 12.

5. Vectorworks is a more American based product and NNA are not promoting it in Europe as much as their Allplan product.

6. Live sections are great but are they really live? Where are the demos/images/promotions in the UK? If this is the only real extra to 12 then the product it is not ready to be launched without adding other users genuine wishes and leading the CAD industry rather than just catching up.

I thank everyone who contributes to this site and helped me sort my technical issues out in the past. Sometimes I think NNA themselves should dedicate more time to the site and not just rely on users to sort out problems. Usually there are far more technically competant users than me that contribute to the discussions but I try and help out when I can. But with over 20 years experience as an architect and as MD of a small successful practice I have relevant geniune concerns and I beleve this is the place to discuss them, especially as I started the thread! The site is not for praising NNA [if we did not like VW we would not be using it and using this site] but identifying and resolving technical problems.

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I do agree that Vectorworks Architect etc are more USA centric, in fact this is the main reason why many UK architects do not use the full Architect package.

As far as I am aware, having spoken to Computers Unlimited, in v12 there are many new UK specific plug ins for the Architect product covering windows, doors and walls (there may be more).

The v12 product is not released until October 24th. No UK VARs have the product or pricing yet so I can't comment on the contents and /or value, and that's why there are no UK specific information available as yet. I would doubt VARs will get the NFR software until well into November anyway, so if you want any real information from your VAR you will have to wait at least another month or so.

I think it is fair to say though from the pdf that there are several enhancements in v12 that should enhance workflows at any level.

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Some clarifications on mw's post:

1) VW 11.0 was launched in the UK in April of 2004.

5) VectorWorks is very actively promoted in the UK and the rest of Europe. In architecture, we believe we are the #2 CAD product by units in the UK and not only appear at most major trade shows but also have been doing joint technology conferences with RIBA and Apple. I think you'll find the same to be true in most of the larger European markets as well (we're still new in eastern Europe).

6) Live sections are really live, you can think of them as a viewport that automatically cuts the model it is displaying. In the UK, you can see this all live on November 16th in London and other parts of the UK over the two weeks folloing. CU can provide more details or you should be receiving a mailing shortly about the events. I'll see if I can't get more information about live sections posted to the web page.

I'm not sure I understand your concern about Live Sections being "the only real extra" to 12 as the list of new features and improvements with this version is greater than any other release we've had. Radiosity, Navigation palette, improved door/window/stair/cabinet objects, wall styles balance out a set of improvements that tackles many of the top wishes from our customers world-wide. We've got some things like rotatable coordinate systems that still need to be tackled, of course, but this release really improves a wide variety of product areas.



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Thanks, Sean, for revealing a little reality. I suspect most of the guessing re new and/or improved functionality will go away once we have v12 up on our screens. I, for one, look forward to many of the enhancements as well the challenge to determine where the limits are.

Like some (perhaps many?) others, I make a pretty decent living in no small part because of VW. While I'll argue and occasionally complain, I'm generally confident that I've got a solid partner in VWA+RW.

Keep up the good work,

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I have now got the info on UK version plug in extras and they look good. I would be interested to know where the other V12 events are in the UK as I have only heard of the one in London. Vectorworks is not actively promoted in the UK and certainly not as much as in the US. NNA push Allplan harder. VW is not the 2 CAD package in the UK - AutoCAD and Microstation are, with Sketchup catching up fast [and at only ?300 apx it is very attractive, simpler to use and better visuals]

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