Structural member / column: resets to zero height when 3d attributes changed

[line-weight]

Try this in blank document:

 

Create a column with the structural member tool.

 

It'll have a Z height, looks like default is layer wall height.

 

Go to its settings dialogue, "3D attributes" tab.

 

Change "set attributes:" from "object" to "class".

 

The column immediately flips to zero height (even if you don't change the "class" from the default) and the "start bound" and "end bound" dropdowns in the OIP are blanked out.

 

Is this a known bug?

 

 

***edited to add:

(1) with column same seems to happen if I change "set attributes" to "class" in the 2D attributes tab,

(2) the beam version of the structural member tool survives these processes.

(3) setting "2D attributes" by class seems to have no effect on rendering of beam in top/plan view. Only setting the class of the object itself achieves this.

(4) with beam, having changed 3d attributes to "class" I can't seem to then change them back to by "object"

Edited April 19, 2017 by line-weight

[Marissa Farrell]

I'm not seeing this.

 

What version are you using, and which platform are you on?

[line-weight]

VW2017, SP3, mac OSX El Capitan.

[Marissa Farrell]

I can't reproduce on 10.10 even with your added notes,

I'll try to get someone with El Capitan to check it out later.

[line-weight]

Thanks.

[Kevin McAllister]

Interesting. I tried to make a column and had all sorts of issues. I'm now stuck in a loop with an error "Cannot create a zero length structural member".

 

This is not a tool I've tried before but it doesn't seem very straightforward to create a column. I followed the VW help instructions for creating a vertical structural member and they don't work (Help Link). I restarted VW to reset the tool and had the same result. I think there's a problem with the bounding of a column object. The elevation start bound and end bound keep reseting themselves to blank even when I set them to "Layer Elevation" where I should be enter the height into the height field in the mode bar.

 

I don't think this is an OS issue.

 

Kevin

[Marissa Farrell]

Could either of you provide a movie of what you're doing so I can try to replicate this in house? I've tried all sorts of things and still haven't encountered an issue like you describe.

[line-weight]

17 minutes ago, MarissaF said:

Could either of you provide a movie of what you're doing so I can try to replicate this in house? I've tried all sorts of things and still haven't encountered an issue like you describe.

 

I've just sent you a screen recording by PM.

[line-weight]

Having similar problems with the beam version of the structural member now.

 

I go into settings and change its "shape", for example (which should change it from, say, an I-beam to a square section) and it reverts to a zero elevation at start and finish, the dropdown boxes blanked out as before.

 

So for me it seems the "structural member" tool is unusable.

 

If anyone else reading this can replicate this behaviour, I'd be grateful if you could post here.

Edited April 19, 2017 by line-weight

[Kevin McAllister]

There's definitely a bug here. I was able to clear the blockage by restarting my machine but as soon as I edit the preference of the tool and switch profiles or other preferences it starts to fail.

 

Kevin

 

[Marissa Farrell]

I still haven't encountered anything, but if you can track down specific steps and situations, I will continue to try to replicate.

[Kevin McAllister]

Hi Marissa,

Here's what I did -

1. Open VW.
2. Create a new document using the Architectural (Imperial).sta template. (It happens in any file but I thought I should use a clean NV file.)
3. Click on the Structural Member tool.
4. Choose Column Insertion Mode from the mode bar.
5. Insert a column into the drawing. So far everything works as expected.
6. Click on the Preference button for the tool in the mode bar.
7. Change the member type from Steel to Concrete.
8. Try to insert a column and get the "Cannot create a zero length Structural Member" error in red at the bottom right of the drawing window.
9. The Structural Member tool is now unusable in that file.
10. If you create another new file the tool will work until you change the Preferences again.

Kevin

 

[line-weight]

^ the problem Kevin McAllister describes is not exactly the same as mine, but I am able to replicate it.

[Marissa Farrell]

Try as I might, I still cannot reproduce.

[zoomer]

43 minutes ago, MarissaF said:

Try as I might, I still cannot reproduce.

 

So maybe an OS X thing only ?

[Marissa Farrell]

I tried on Mac 10.10 as well as 10.12 as well as Windows 10.

 

The ONLY time I got that error was when I was attempting to insert the column onto a sheet layer (which I did by mistake, and which of course would not work)

[zoomer]

OK, pity.

 

I felt forced to try it myself.

Did Kevin's steps - and got the same error hint.

 

Do you have perhaps another build of VW ?

356720 here.

[Marissa Farrell]

I tested specifically on the release build of SP3, which is 356720. I also tested in the Spanish version, which should have been the best indicator since I've never used the tool in that build before.

 

I'm honestly baffled.

[line-weight]

5 minutes ago, zoomer said:

Did Kevin's steps - and got the same error hint.

 

Are you able to replicate the slightly different issue I describe in my initial post?

[zoomer]

Now its completely nuts

 

I think it will default to standard Layer elevation/Wall height.

And the empty file has zero Wall height.

(Never seen that before, I thought I always have to set that legacy setting back to zero)

 

No, no matter if steel or concrete, I set a Layer Wall height now.

But when I choose these in the geometry options of SM, it will not be kept

and I always get that error hint.

[zoomer]

I can't create any column anymore, until I open a new empty file.

As soon as I touched tool settings, from then I get the error hint permanently.

No matter what height setting I try anywhere.

 

BTW,

are the input Fields Start/End Bound quite flipped for Column Insertion Mode ?

I tried numbers both ways. No success anyway.

Edited April 20, 2017 by zoomer

[line-weight]

24 minutes ago, zoomer said:

 

 

I think it will default to standard Layer elevation/Wall height.

And the empty file has zero Wall height.

(Never seen that before, I thought I always have to set that legacy setting back to zero)

^ That was my thought too.

But maybe it is just the template files that have a default wall height, and a blank file has one of zero?

[RussU]

I've raised a couple of issues with this tool since sp3, but never had any answers or interest shown to them.

The latest one I found this morning is that when you "convert to group" some are extrudes with re-size handles(RHS) , some don't have the handles (SHS)and then some are generic solids. (UB 152x89x16)

There's no reason why each type of member should resolve down to a different type of primative, but they do, making it a much longer workflow to re-extrude and replace each bit.

 

Also, once you have your "wireframe" structure made up, I would love to have a toggle switch which allows you to either create a join to a neighboring beam or not (rather than permanently on)

A tool which allows you to clear the end conditions would also be very useful... similar to the way the wall tool currently works. At the moment, you have to set the end caps on an individual basis... surely if you unticked the start and end caps, they should go back to square cut full length beams? But they don't....

[zoomer]

I wonder why Start/End dropdowns are set to nothing (or better to a separator)

When I change them to something else they will be back to separator again when I come back.

 

VW international but german OS language settings here.

(BTW, my blank file defaults to mm units here (thank god !)

 

Edited April 20, 2017 by zoomer

[line-weight]

20 minutes ago, RussU said:

Also, once you have your "wireframe" structure made up, I would love to have a toggle switch which allows you to either create a join to a neighboring beam or not (rather than permanently on)

A tool which allows you to clear the end conditions would also be very useful... similar to the way the wall tool currently works. At the moment, you have to set the end caps on an individual basis... surely if you unticked the start and end caps, they should go back to square cut full length beams? But they don't....

 

In my short time using the tool yesterday I was coming up against some of these issues too.

 

For now I've had to abandon using it, it seems too unstable to trust with data and geometry that it might wipe out at any moment.

 

Shame as it could be really useful if it actually worked properly.

[Kevin McAllister]

I think @line-weight's original issue and mine are related. I can replicate that too. I think its because changing the class options causes the plugin to regenerate. There's no question its related to the layer bounding. As @zoomersays the start/end bounding dropdowns reset to blank and the document layers are no longer available as options. I've tried in multiple templates with the same result.

 

@MarissaFI've attached a file. It has two successful columns and one where it jumped to zero when I tried line-weight's steps. If things hold true, you shouldn't be able to insert a column into it now.

 

Kevin

 

Column Issue.vwx