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Christiaan

Best way to model footings in v2012?

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Use Walls and then use the Fit Walls to Roof command to extrudes in elevation views (usually best to have these on a separate layer).

Vw need a strip footing tool that allows you to add steps where required. This could be done with control points and parameters for step overlap, bottom step angle and footing width increase (with option for this to be on both sides).

Edited by mike m oz

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Thanks Mike. Shame you can't snap to the middle of a wall component. I'd like to be able to draw the footing along the centre of the cavity of the wall above.

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When creating your extrudes, why don't you use the double line tool? You can use the centre line control mode, choose polygon mode in the options, then extrude the resulting polygon? You can even set a custom offset if your wall components are different thicknesses each side of the cavity.

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Here is an example of how footings should be.

I have to say though that I hate the Vw work around of using walls for footings. I can't see how that is legitimate in IFC terms. Surely footings are are a separate element in the IFC lexicon and therefore there should be a Footing tool in Vw.

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I used to use walls for footings, but now I use slabs to draw them. That way they can be on the same layer as your foundation walls. Another advantage is that your footings can be a dotted line in plan view and a solid one in 3D.

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I've always used floor objects as wall footings - it's easier to control the outer shape, and the top is always level.

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So Dworks and Bob-H how do you get your footings to step when you have sites which aren't flat?

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Thanks to this thread now I know why I've been fighting to show my footing line in dashed on plan viewports = I've been using walls as well because it just made sense for the stepping control (max 2ft steps allowed vertically here for residential, so it could make a lot of steps as I live at 1100 Meters elevation in the Mountains of British Columbia)

Related to this, I'm curious how you draw/show a residential sill plate between the top of fndt wall and bottom of slab (Usually a 2x6 piece of lumber) as it will affect you top of fndt wall height and bottom of slab elevation. Is there a way of incorporating it in either your Fndt wall style or as a narrow component along the edge of a slab style? Any thoughts?

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So Dworks and Bob-H how do you get your footings to step when you have sites which aren't flat?

In most cases, we don't let our footings make steps. I have never done one and seen one here. What we do when the terrain isn't flat is:

A. Create a crawling space as foundation, so the footings go deeper and the concrete blockwork is higher.

B. Use a cellar as foundation for the home.

C. Use other kind of foundations.

I know see why you are using walls for it, only then can you make the slope for the steppings. When you have this, you need to do it with walls. When you don't have to do it, I find it easier to work with slabs.

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Stepped concrete footings are common in Oz for sloping sites.

I would have thought that to create stepped footings would be to model them as extrusions and then edit the wall with the 3D reshape tool to follow the footings?

Using the "Fit walls to roof" command is something I never would have thought of in this instance. It's all kind of jumbled up - slabs as ceilings, walls as footings.

No wonder I've found the learning curve steep with VW. If it wasn't for this board....

Edited by Kizza

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I believe Digitalmechanics offered up his methods utilizing the push/pull mechanisms to create solids for stepped footings. Unfortunately it seems it's been removed from Youtube.

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Using the "Fit walls to roof" command is something I never would have thought of in this instance. It's all kind of jumbled up - slabs as ceilings, walls as footings.

I don't like these 'work arounds' either and the 'are you for real' looks you get from users during training sessions says to me that it needs to be different. Vw needs dedicated Ceiling and Footing capabilities.

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Can't wait to see the dialog box for that.......

It would also be nice/necessary for the footing object to accept a dashed line style in plan.

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Can't wait to see the dialog box for that.......

I'm sure its not beyond the capabilities of the NV programmers. All it needs is a 'Strip Footing' tool with the ability to join 'Strip Footings' of different 'Strip Footing Styles' together. Steps could be done by giving users the ability to graphically add 'Step' control points. The form of each step could be controlled by setting individual 'parameters' for that step (similar to how the 'hot spots' work on Roof objects to control the individual form of each roof slope.).

It would also be nice/necessary for the footing object to accept a dashed line style in plan.

Absolute requirement. Just as with Walls the 'Footings' would need the ability to define both the overall attributes and the component attributes.

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Using the "Fit walls to roof" command is something I never would have thought of in this instance. It's all kind of jumbled up - slabs as ceilings, walls as footings.

I've seen the direction of development in other CAD apps and the tendency is that this type of dedicate functionality is slowly being phased out for more flexible single modeling tools i.e.. no more need for slabs, roofs, ceilings etc. tools - one tool does it all now.......same for walls, foundations, footings, leaning walls - same tool for all of this, including more advanced 3D modeling capabilities. All that keeps them apart are their components and their class.

Look at what they did with the reshape tools, before we had a 2D reshape tool and a 3D reshape tool, now it is one, I was present when the exact same development took place in Bentley Architecture a couple of years ago, they also had separate tools for 2D and 3D.....

I'm guessing the combine, wall join and component join tools will soon be merged too, same for the 2D and 3D fillet and chamfer tools etc etc.

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Using the "Fit walls to roof" command is something I never would have thought of in this instance. It's all kind of jumbled up - slabs as ceilings, walls as footings.

Problem is, the workflow is not documented anywhere.

For that to work properly, the resulting extrude needs to be categorised, as you pointed out.

In Revit, for example, footings would be created as extrudes BUT with the difference that they can be assigned to a model category. Revit would know that it's a structural component.

Flexible modeling forms + ability to categorise = accurate scheduling

Edited by Kizza

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I use a custom wall type for my footings with attributes set by the overriding class the wall objects are in. (not set my wall components or by wall type)

Then in your viewport you can use your class overrides to change your footings class to a different wall type. I do the same thing with my foundation walls.

In this way my default line types in plan are solid line and hatched foundations with dashed and no hatch for footings.

In my elevations my footings show up dashed and I override my foundation wall class to also be dashed.

In my building sections my foundations show up solid line and hatched and I override my dashed footing to also be solid line and hatched.

Once you are controlling the attributes by the 'container' class and not by the 'component' class or by attributes buried in the definition of the wall type it works pretty well.

Similar control is needed of the wall poche in plan vs sections and details or slab framing component when you want it hatched in overall building sections but not hatched in more intricate details.

Admittedly, a better interface is needed. One idea would be expanding Wall Type attributes to different 'sets' of component lines and fills and then allowing a viewport to interface with those wall type attribute presets depending on the nature of the viewport. In this way you can assign to any wall (or slab) component how you want it to display in plan, elev, overall building section, and details with simple toggles or OIP viewport settings. One switch from the 'plan' setting to the 'section' could change the look of all the walls and slabs in the viewport.

Joe

Joe

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Joe, I'm struggling to override the wall style for my footing as you describe above could you elaborate, I've create a wall style for my footings but in order for it to show up dashed in Top/Plan view the style itself has to be a dashed line, now in elevation the footings a still shown as solid but in a live section their dashed w/ no hatch... I think I may be getting what overrides what all confused.

Or are you trying to say your creating 3 different wall styles for the 3 different viewports that show the footings (plan, elev & section)?

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I'm not surprised. It took me a while to work out the bugs of the system.

You have a few different ways to define the lines of a wall. One is the exterior lines of the wall itself (the container) and the other is in the definitions of the components themselves. The component lines will overlap the 'container' lines on the wall edge. The 'container' lines are controlled in the 'Edit Wall Attributes' tab while the 'component' lines are controlled when editing each component.

Your components should end up in a component class while your wall should end up in a 'container' class. I HAVE been able to use line and fill settings of the container class to manipulate lines as I described. I have not been able to do the same with component classes.

Under Edit Attributes inside the Wall Type definition, be sure to assign attributes by class and also be sure to assign a default class under the Insertion Options tab. Under the component, be sure the component that is adjacent to the wall edge has a zero line overlapping the wall edge.

Now things should work as I described. From the Class tab of the organization dialog box you should be able to manipulate the line attributes of the wall objects.

This method falls apart when dealing with multi-component walls because you are only able to manipulate the perimeter edges of the walls but for footings and foundations it seems to work once you have reset your wall type definitions.

Joe

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I find it simpler when just working with no component at all, then you can control the wall appearence just by the wall class. Very simple and efficient for things like footings, but I use this for hedges where I want a dashed line. Very easy to overwrite.

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Oh boy! Lines overlapping! Really, I could have been scratching

my head on this one for a while. Could someone please write a proper Real world tutorial with this stuff in it, project from start to finish, 1000 pages if needed. The only ones that exist are from Mr Pickup but he does not get into this amount of detail.

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You can do this for footings and other walls where you want to show the wall dotted in plan and solid line in other views:

ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=7361&filename=Wall dotted.png

Another solution is using components: Set all by class and the class of the components will be the dotted line. The class of the wall will be the solid one. Now in plan views, just override the class of the wall to show no line. This easy trick will show how you want the footings to show.

Edited by DWorks

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