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Christiaan

Open bug report system with incentives to submit

Question

This has been asked for before but I'd like to add a little something.

On one hand bug reports can be difficult and time consuming to compose, especially when you're in the middle of something and just need a workaround. On the other hand a well composed bug report, including a file that demonstrates the problem, is gold dust to NV and ultimately solves the problem so you don't need the workaround.

The problem is bug reporting is a black hole as far as most people's experience goes. There needs to be more transparency and recognition of people efforts (especially given NV makes money out of the process).

It would be great if there was an open (curated) bug report system that we could all submit to and review, including an open comment/discussion section for each bug report. To grease the cogs even more a kudos system could be included whereby bug submitters accumulate kudos and can cash this kudos in somehow to gain rewards of some kind, such as access to early release software, vouchers for 3rd party plugins, or something else.

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I second this.

Eg. I think I just discovered a bug in 'export to dwg' not more than an hour ago, however must admit I find myself hesitant to submit, too many maybes;

- Time consuming.

- I can't attach files or even screen-dumps so describing the problem becomes even more time consuming......

- I'm not even sure it is a bug.

- I find myself looking for excuses, "Perhaps it has already been submitted".

- or, "Someone else is sure to submit it anyway....later on".

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Love the idea. We get to agree with the "Reporter" when it hits each of us and maybe peruse the workarounds others have found to solve it and then see what is happening to solve the problem.

Maybe listed by related tool, command or case etc. etc. so searching is less hit and miss.

Still, rewards seems a little "Wishful Thinking". still good if it happens . . . . . .

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I completely agree with this request for an open bug list (as I have every time it has come up, most recently on Stability/Compatibility over Fast Development/Features ).

As I posted on that other thread, for reference here is Archicad's bug list: Bugs - ArchicadWiki

Sadly, I think we'll have to keep holding our breath on this one, so far it has fallen on deaf ears over at NV. They don't seem to understand that the time we (their customers) spend submitting a bug which they already know about is a waste of our time and therefore our money.

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Yes, please! A visible, searchable bug submittal list and brief status reports or statement if not considered bug. The black hole analogy is apt.

An easy start - Any submittal to the online Bug Submit gets auto listed in a new BugList forum on this Techboard (description and vwx file) - This is the only way to post in this new BugList. Only moderators or Company folks can post comments or status, so BugList "forum" remains mostly a list, rather than a discussion. User discussion can still occur by posting in other forums with reference to the BugList entry. I like Andi's idea for list sorting by broad category - Could implement with several radio button search categories during the online Bug Submit process (tool, command, texture, Help error, other, etc).

I have some sympathy for troubleshooting team and company resources. Requirement for detailed response to each submittal would be satisfying to submitters, but not best way to work on the bug or anything else. Bug List and only limited response should be early goal (my opinion).

The ArchiCAD wiki looks very good. I wonder if all submittals from all sources are included, or just the ones the team wants to tackle.

Prizes are nice to receive, but tracking the points is dicey. Was my bug report worth same as yours? Are my 100 bug reports worth anything if none are "real" bugs? Sorry, rambling here. I'm just thinking this may not be best use of customer relations process.

Anybody know the stats?:

How many bug submits are there in a VWX release year? 2000? 10K?

How many different bugs do they represent? 200?

-B

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Well why not just add a new section in the forum list to start with?

I usually ask others on the forum anyway if it is a bug before submitting, this way perhaps many false bug submits will be avoided and others have the possibility to expand on the bug issue too.....

Perhaps moderators can pick out actual bugs and forward these to NV if they(NV) don't want to do this themselves?

Surely adding a new forum section isn't such a big thing and i'm sure many more bugs would come to light sooner.

Edited by Vincent C

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Perhaps I should not say this but I will

Ozcad here in Oz does an incredible job

So I drive them nuts sometimes but recently found some bugs in the Plant Tool ? we think

They have been submitted but not by me

I do not think we need rewards and my attitude is ?we are all in this together? in a sense with VW ? it is a community after all

Mostly think if anyone wishes to rant on with ?we should not have to put up with this or that?

I would say ? hey go and write millions of lines of code yourself and see how you go

And also tell them VW is too cheap for what it does!!

The Plant Tool issue took me hours of testing and effing around ? making movies because it was easier than typing etc

If it had been an issue that was already known ? point is I would not have had to do that nor bother Ozcad with it ? their time and my time is valauble if you get my drift

Therefore a current bug list by NV is really not negotiable ? it should have already been done

BTW has anyone ever read through those lists of bug fixes when a SP comes out ? does my head in

Edited by Ozzie

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BTW has anyone ever read through those lists of bug fixes when a SP comes out ? does my head in

I do, every time and every time I think 'why didn't I have access to that list earlier.....!'

I also would like to express my appreciation to Ozcad (Julian), any problems or suggestions (even adjustments specific to foreign building customs!) I have regarding Windoor are always responded to with great speed and consideration, great job - excellent product!

Edited by Vincent C

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Prizes are nice to receive, but tracking the points is dicey. Was my bug report worth same as yours? Are my 100 bug reports worth anything if none are "real" bugs? Sorry, rambling here. I'm just thinking this may not be best use of customer relations process.

They're valid concerns, but details none the less. Kudos/remuneration systems do work. The mobile network company I use is a good example http://giffgaff.com (they don't have very many support staff, instead people get kudos from customers for providing support to them on the forum, and in turn Giffgaff pay these people for the kudos they receive).

I do not think we need rewards and my attitude is ?we are all in this together? in a sense with VW ? it is a community after all

You're right, rewards wouldn't be needed, but they would make the process of identifying and eliminating bugs more effective. Furthermore, kudos is a community building tool (especially if the kudos comes from other users).

Fact is people will be more likely to file quality bug reports and feel part of a community if:

1. they can see that they're achieving something and helping progress the software

2. that their efforts are recognised by others in the community

3. that this recognition is rewarded by those who stand to make money from their efforts

Edited by Christiaan

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A filter>tracking with workaround system would be great.

Filter - user A spots a possible bug. 3 users confirm - bug gets entered into tracking.

Tracking - NV reviews and accepts the bug - all users now know they're not going crazy when confronted with the same issue.

Workaround - successful workarounds could be offered by users & NV until the bug is resolved.

Reward - cake for all

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I agree to a point with Chrstiaan, this would expedite finding bugs. however I am confused with the baking twist the post has taken. What if I don't like cake, how about steak! JK:)

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I am confused with the baking twist the post has taken.

Tracking bugs will be a piece of cake with a bug forum. Or will there be too many cooks??...

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Thing is, an Open NV Governed Bug Forum would seem to be a positive push in the right direction for ALL concerned.

It'd clear things up for us, the end users and as far as i can see, it'd clarify things for those on the other side of the divide enabling concrete results on a Two Way Strip.

After all, isn't communication what's needed in these sort of cases and what it's all about? Or don't we get that option any more?

Forget the cake, steak, or burgers(i like pasta myself) let's open a productive comm link . . . . . . . .

SOON!

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A bug forum section doesn't sound very efficient to me. It would be another separate thing for NV to administrate. Plus it would invariably involve reading through screeds of comments rather than beginning with a concise updatable description of the bug.

Surely better to implement a dedicated system based on specialised bug report software, which both NV and customers use?

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Surely better to implement a dedicated system based on specialised bug report software, which both NV and customers use?

Sure but in the mean time......at least we'll know if it is and if someone else already found and reported the bug.

Edited by Vincent C

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Not if there are strict rules . . . .

Like no chatting!

State your case and out!

Describe the problem, no comments, just facts.

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I agree - no cake until the work is done.

With that in mind - perhaps, failing NV jumping in with an open bug process we could form our own akin to Christian's wiki 'Needle & Mortar', perhaps 'Palette Knife' or 'Bug Ware' or 'Currant Crumbs'... without a great name it will never work, so suggestions welcome. A key to its success will be to have the BS process as painless and rewarding as possible and if it becomes more active, supplanting the current BS system NV will begin to watch it. We might even get an NV reporter posting some monthly feedback/updates etc.

And for the bug scout of the month, by popular aspiration: cake.

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