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michaelk

Working Plane wishes

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1. The working plane palette allows two different working planes to have the same name. I wish it didn't.

2. On macs, that palette is not resizable. I wish it was.

3. The palette doesn't allow the scroll wheel to scroll up and down the list. I wish it did.

4. I wish there was an indicator on the palette that indicates which working plane it is currently in. Now you can double click on a WP, click on a different WP and you have to trust your memory to know which WP you are in...

5. I often want to use the view keys (0-9 numeric keyboard) in a working plane. It seems to work for a while, but then after a couple of view changes, it asks me if I want the working plane flipped to a usable orientation. Anybody know what that means? What was unusable with the view I asked for? My wish is for an indication on the WP palette that gives me some confidence what plane I'm in and what view relative to that plane.

michaelk

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Hi Michael,

Working planes are stored in a manner similar to saved views, in that once the command is run, the system doesn't really keep track of where it is.

5. a working plane...asks me if I want the working plane flipped to a usable orientation. Anybody know what that means?

I think that message is displayed when the working plane will appear edge on in the upcoming view.

These are great wishes; I'll pass them on to the engineers.

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You get the view you asked for regardless when the question is posed. You get the edge on working plane if you click no; and the working plane is changed to align with the screen plane if you say yes.

hth,

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Frank

THANK YOU!!!!

I've been wondering what that was about for a long time.

It's late for you on that coast. Thanks for staying up and answering questions.

michaelk

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It's starting to sink in....

Is this correct?:

VW means "usable" in the sense that if you answer "No" and create something like a nurb circle from the 3D Modeling tool palette you would not be able to see it. It would appear as a very confusing line.

Because the requested view is edge on to the WP.

michaelk

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Ok then, Wish Number

6. Change the wording of that dialog box!

The view is perfectly usable, if I just want to see it from that view.

thanks

michaelk

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"The working plane is currently perpendicular to the screen plane. Would you like to change the working plane to match the screen plane?"

Yeah, that error message could use some work. Perhaps like the above.

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1. 2. 3. 4. 5. And 6.

michaelk

Each and every one of them Michael!

i've just been dealing with it's quirks for so long now i've become used to not getting any further with it.

Mouse Miles with this Palette are HUGE!

Edited by AndiACD

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The assumption has always been that WorkingPlanes are the bastard step-child of an illicit affair with the 3D Modeling Fairy.

Only Petri-Panta-Rei can provide a sufficiently colorful politically incorrect description of that reality.

Here's my contribution to the new improved dialog:

" The working plane is currently experiencing a perpendicularity issue with the weirdness of your screen plane. Would you like to remind the Working Plane Wizard that matching the current screen plane is workable as long as you ignore the pink lines ?"

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Thanks, michaelk for bringing this topic forward. The WP tools and commands seem unpredictable. WP manipulation with the WP palette probably works as intended - VW just does what we tell it to. It cannot know what we intend. But WP manipulation is not user friendly. For instance, it seems to me that the click to "Look at WP" button in the WP palette, and the "Yes" answer to the "Switch to usable view" can result in a view looking in the opposite direction than intended - eg up at the screen plane rather than down. This might have some relation to the order of points picked or view of plane picked to create the working plane.

Is this a Bug?

Dbl click to enter any custom working plane, choose working plane mode, and choose Top in the drawing window View pulldown menu. So far OK. Now choose Front from the drawing window view pulldown. Answer "yes" to the Usable View question, and change view with the pull down again. Many views selected from the pulldown show "Top" in the pulldown indicator, some just say "Custom" - eg drop down the menu to Front, release - the view changes, but the indicator says "Top". Drop down to Left view or Right view, release - view changes, but indicator says "Top". Not user friendly.

I often choose object rotation to work on an object rather than jkl WPs. 3d object rotation combined with ground plane view changes (front, right, top, etc) is easy and almost intuitive. The view is predictable and reproducible. Some guide points or lines allow me to return the object to its default position. I know ...its a workaround.

-B

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I agree.

I often create temporary 3D guide objects off to the sides or place Nurbs "arrow" symbols on a WP after I create it just to see which way is "north". I'm never sure when clicking on 3 points, which way will be i, j, or +k.

But when you get more than 3 or 4 WPs in a drawing the design object to guidepost object ratio gets out of control.

I've never tried using the pulldowns inside a working plane view, just the numeric keys.

WPs is a really powerful tool, but not very intuitive. Providing feedback in the WP Palette - Current WP and current View in that WP - would make it much more intuitive.

(...and why does VW keep calling the view I want "unusable"? - it's freaking me out!!)

I posted this wish on another thread -and Petri did have some funny comments on it there- http://techboard.vectorworks.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=119473#Post119473

But I'll make it number 7 here:

7. Allow hybrid symbols on WPs. I know that the 2D part will be compromised on switching back to the ground plane. But often the 2D contains text or data from an attached record. I hate losing that capability just because my symbol isn't sitting parallel to the ground plane.

michaelk

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I hate losing that capability just because my symbol isn't sitting parallel to the ground plane.

You and me both, Michael

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Just had a look at working planes in 2010...

MUCH easier to set working planes. Much more positive feedback when creating and working in working planes.

More (and recurring) wishes:

1. I don't understand the new view cues. If I go into a working plane and then go to a left view, then the view pull down doesn't say left. Not sure what Rotated Top means. This seems more confusing (to my already confused little brain) than it was in 2009.

I'd like to go into a working plane and then change views relative to that working plane until I return to the ground plane. (Or is it layer plane now?)

2. The Working Plane Palette is still not resizable (on macs).

3. The scroll wheel still doesn't scroll the Working Plane Palette (on macs).

4. The Working Plane Palette still allows two different working planes to have the same name. Recipe for confusion.

Keep up the good work.

michaelk

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1. I don't understand the new view cues. If I go into a working plane and then go to a left view, then the view pull down doesn't say left.

The Standard Views remain defined as they are in the normal Top/Plan View.

Not sure what Rotated Top means. This seems more confusing (to my already confused little brain) than it was in 2009.

In Vw 2010 the plan can be rotated in both Top/Plan View and Top View. In rotated Top View the view label changes to Top Rotated.

I'd like to go into a working plane and then change views relative to that working plane until I return to the ground plane. (Or is it layer plane now?)

Good suggestion - I think most users would find it easier if the Standard Views related to the temporary work environment that exists when a Working Plane is being used. Some might like to have it as a option though.

2. The Working Plane Palette is still not resizable (on macs).

You can access saved Working Planes via the Active Plane pop-up on the View Bar (see image below).

3. The scroll wheel still doesn't scroll the Working Plane Palette (on macs).

You will need to get used to that because that is the way it is.

4. The Working Plane Palette still allows two different working planes to have the same name. Recipe for confusion.

Not ideal but easily overcome with some user care.

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So, confusion reigns and we're still getting wet . . . . . .

Far from it Shaun. In Vw 2010 Working Planes are much easier to set and use.

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3. The scroll wheel still doesn't scroll the Working Plane Palette (on macs).

You will need to get used to that because that is the way it is.

That may be the case Mike, but i've never liked it and i dare say i ever will. Ploughing through long lists of WP's could be made easier with the use of the Scroll function.

And the "reign" ref was my warped humour, not Micheals.

:)

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I'd like to go into a working plane and then change views relative to that working plane until I return to the ground plane. (Or is it layer plane now?)

Good suggestion - I think most users would find it easier if the Standard Views related to the temporary work environment that exists when a Working Plane is being used. Some might like to have it as a option though.

Maybe I wasn't being clear, Mike. And I haven't worked w/ 2010 yet to be totally confident about this yet. Are you saying that it does currently behave the way I would like it to? My biggest wish for working planes is to be able to enter a working plane and have all the views be relative to that plane and not to the ground plane. And for there to be some feedback to the user of what the current view is and relative to what plane.

To me it seems like that would be the whole reason for using working planes... to work in that plane for a while...

2. The Working Plane Palette is still not resizable (on macs).

You can access saved Working Planes via the Active Plane pop-up on the View Bar (see image below).

I'm not seeing that on my computer. That pull down is grayed out. Is there something I need to set up first or a preference to set?

3. The scroll wheel still doesn't scroll the Working Plane Palette (on macs).

You will need to get used to that because that is the way it is.

4. The Working Plane Palette still allows two different working planes to have the same name. Recipe for confusion.

Not ideal but easily overcome with some user care.

But this is a wish list forum! :)

My analogy is this: In the past I was used to using convoluted layer links and byzantine procedures to generate sections. But VPs are a much better solution. NNA is obviously interested in improving the working plane experience. My hope is that this is like VPs in VW11: a first step. The fact that the palette doesn't resize and WP names are not unique feels out of character from the rest of the application. It feels like a legacy from a much earlier version.

Thanks for your thoughts, Mike. I'll have to go back and look at rotated views and figure out the Active Plane pull down.

michaelk

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Michael,

Make sure you discover the Working Plane menu items (Modify>Working Plane or in the right click contextual menu). You are now able to assign keyboard shortcuts to many of the functions, most notably Look at Working Plane. Its almost possible to work without the Working Planes Palette with the addition of the menu commands and the drop down Mike is referring to.

I agree with your observations about the palette (as with some of the other orphan palettes, why don't the match in size, dock to each other etc.) but I suspect that the NNA solution is to make it obsolete.

Kevin

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Michael I need to correct the information I posted above. When using the Working Plane palette:

  • If you have the Active Layer Plane Mode selected the Standard Views are relative to the Layer Plane.
  • If you have the Working Plane Mode selected the Standard Views are relative to the selected Working Plane.

I also agree with you that the Working Plane palette should:

  • Be resizable so all of the named Working Planes can be made visible and accessible.
  • Scroll with the mouse scroll wheel (like the Navigation palette does).
  • Not allow Working Planes to have the same name.

Edited by mike m oz

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Michael, to activate the Active Plane pull down switch to the 3D cursor.

Thanks, Mike.

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