Best way to make a simple "general note" that will update across all instances?

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I make fairly wide use of the notes database & callouts, sometimes using keynote legends and sometimes not. This has its many annoyances but basically works for any callout note that I might want to repeat across multiple viewports. I can update the text and it'll update across all instances.

 

But what about more general notes - that is, not attached to a callout and not attached to a particular viewport.

 

For example I often want to put a note on a drawing sheet that says something like "Refer to window schedule on sheet XXX for full window details".

 

I might want to have that note on several drawing sheets, and in the future I might want to change the wording, and have that wording update in all instances.

 

There is the "general notes" tool but it wants to format the notes like this:

 

I don't want that "1." there.

 

In the settings I can choose from this list:

 

 

But I don't want any of these. It doesn't give me the option to have only the note text.

 

Is there any way around this - a way just to have the note text?

 

(Why don't I want the notes numbered? Firstly because it might cause confusion when there's also a keynote legend on the sheet. Secondly because it uses up page space needlessly. Thirdly because often I'll only want to have one note in that "general notes" object, and it then looks odd if it's numbered.)

 

[EAlexander]

Can't you just make a piece of text and convert it into a symbol? Than it would update globally. 

[line-weight]

22 minutes ago, EAlexander said:

Can't you just make a piece of text and convert it into a symbol? Than it would update globally. 

 

Yes - I guess I could do that.

 

However - the "general note" tool has the following useful abilities:

- can pull the text from the notes database

- can put multiple notes in a tidy list with a heading, preformatted

 

It's just frustrating that I can't opt out of the numbering/lettering.

 

At the moment I'm trying a workaround where I choose "note description from database" from that dropdown and for all the notes that I want to appear in my general notes list, I make the note description just an asterix.

 

This gives me a general notes list like this:

 

 

And that's ok (ish) but it makes the notes rather awkward to manage because they can't have meaningful descriptions - I have to select each one in the list of stars to see what text it contains:

 

[line-weight]

Well, my workaround above sort-of works but is not great.

 

I'm realising that I'd like to expand this to a more general question, which is whether there is any other reliable way to extract data from the "notes database" other than via a callout object or a general notes object.

 

For example, can I get the info into a worksheet?

 

Say I have a bunch of fixtures & fittings and each has a spec including product reference and so on. The same fitting might appear on multiple drawings - plans, internal elevations and so on, and it's straightforward for me to point to it with a calllout, and have that callout display the spec info pulled from the notes database. And if I change the spec of that fitting, then all the callouts that point to it, on multiple drawing sheets, can update accordingly.

 

But if I then want to make a schedule of fittings, formatted as a table, can I do that with a worksheet where I can pull in the relevant specification text for each fitting? So, if I update the text in the notes database, it'll update across all callouts but also in that table?

 

I seem to recall other threads where I think @Tom W. has said he uses data tags instead of the notes database. Have I reached the point here where I realise the reason for that - or am I missing something basic?

[Tom W.]

If the info in the callouts is info about objects then I think you are better attaching that info to the objects themselves rather than writing it up in the Notes Database. Then, as well as being able to return that info in whatever combination you want + in whatever graphical style you want in Data Tags, you can also use it to generate reports/schedules + to create Data Visualisations.

 

However, when the notes are more general + aren't related to specific objects then it makes sense for that info to be stored somewhere else + this is why I've asked in the past for the Notes Database to be accessible from Data Tags. I don't want to use the Callout Tool for these notes because I want to use the same tool with the same graphical appearance for all my callouts/tags. But because I can't access the Notes Database from a Data Tag I have instead been storing my 'general notes' in a Record Format which I can then call on from a Data Tag but it is literally just a very long list in a pop-up + the Notes Database would be a preferable way of storing the info.

 

The other important thing to say is that under some circumstances it can be very hard to get your Data Tag to 'see' the object you are attempting to tag (section VPs for example) which makes a mockery of the whole functionality. In these circumstances it's quicker + easier to just use a note that comes from a list than data attached to the object.

 

So I think there are benefits to using Callouts + the Notes Database + benefits to using Record info + Data Tags but the best arrangement would be if both functionalities were combined + you didn't have to choose one or the other...

 

I'm not sure how much milage there is in trying to generate reports from the Notes Database... But then I haven't used it for a few years + even then only lightly.

[line-weight]

1 hour ago, Tom W. said:

If the info in the callouts is info about objects then I think you are better attaching that info to the objects themselves rather than writing it up in the Notes Database. Then, as well as being able to return that info in whatever combination you want + in whatever graphical style you want in Data Tags, you can also use it to generate reports/schedules + to create Data Visualisations.

 

However, when the notes are more general + aren't related to specific objects then it makes sense for that info to be stored somewhere else + this is why I've asked in the past for the Notes Database to be accessible from Data Tags. I don't want to use the Callout Tool for these notes because I want to use the same tool with the same graphical appearance for all my callouts/tags. But because I can't access the Notes Database from a Data Tag I have instead been storing my 'general notes' in a Record Format which I can then call on from a Data Tag but it is literally just a very long list in a pop-up + the Notes Database would be a preferable way of storing the info.

 

The other important thing to say is that under some circumstances it can be very hard to get your Data Tag to 'see' the object you are attempting to tag (section VPs for example) which makes a mockery of the whole functionality. In these circumstances it's quicker + easier to just use a note that comes from a list than data attached to the object.

 

So I think there are benefits to using Callouts + the Notes Database + benefits to using Record info + Data Tags but the best arrangement would be if both functionalities were combined + you didn't have to choose one or the other...

 

I'm not sure how much milage there is in trying to generate reports from the Notes Database... But then I haven't used it for a few years + even then only lightly.

Thanks.

 

I guess I am kind of the other way round from you ... I have got myself invested in the notes database approach and don't really want to start mixing up with data tags for similar reasons of graphic consistency (and sticking with what I know already).

 

I think you are quite right that there are (at least) two kinds of notes, ones that are associated with a specific object and ones that are more general, and currently VW doesn't seem to make it easy to deal with both types in the same system.

 

I think actually there are more kinds than that... There are notes that are specific to one object, notes that are specific to a type of object, notes that might apply to multiple objects, notes that are just to do with reading the drawings, and so on. The notes database isn't currently sophisticated enough to cope with all this in a tidy way. I can see why you might want to use record formats because then you can have multiple fields and (presumably) choose which ones you want to be used for a data tag.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Tom W. said:

I'm not sure how much milage there is in trying to generate reports from the Notes Database... But then I haven't used it for a few years + even then only lightly.

In actual fact, for current purposes I don't even necessarily need to pull items from the notes database into a report. It would do just to have a basic manually drawn table, but I would want to drop some text blocks into it (using items from the notes database) that would update in the same way callouts do.

 

But it seems like the only options for doing that are hacky versions of a callout object or general notes object. That is unless there's something I'm missing.

[bcd]

This sounds like a job for the Title Block

 

You can add data on a per Sheet

Edit the Title Block Style

Sheet Data>Manage Sheet Data>Add a new field

Title Block>Edit Title Block Layout place some text and in the OIP convert it to Data Type>Link Value, Parameter>Sheet Data, your newly created field.

 

Then via the Title Block manager you can select which Sheet Layers you want to display this text and edit it to suit.

 

However, having the Title Block Manager speak to the Notes Database to enter that text would be the business.

[Jeff Prince]

On 2/22/2024 at 4:06 AM, line-weight said:

I don't want that "1." there.

 

I agree.

 

Solution - The uber advanced BIM technique reserved only for the most technically challenging projects...

Make a white rectangle and float it over the numbered area of the notes using Draw Order

 

I guess fixing primitive notation tools isn't as sexy as making new features with AI and rendering engines 😞

[grant_PD]

So playing with the callout tool, I can turn off the bubble, and turn off the leader and the arrow, which just gives me the text.  So I guess you could have a bunch of these callouts laid out for your notes, but you wouldn't get your asterisks unless you manually entered them, or had them as part of the note.  There is a setting to make the first 21 characters of the note be the description, that might help you find them...

 

It would seem like the best thing (I didn't say the fastest thing) would be for VW to allow for a "General Notes Style" where you get to dictate the formatting. 

[line-weight]

1 hour ago, bcd said:

This sounds like a job for the Title Block

 

You can add data on a per Sheet

Edit the Title Block Style

Sheet Data>Manage Sheet Data>Add a new field

Title Block>Edit Title Block Layout place some text and in the OIP convert it to Data Type>Link Value, Parameter>Sheet Data, your newly created field.

 

Then via the Title Block manager you can select which Sheet Layers you want to display this text and edit it to suit.

 

However, having the Title Block Manager speak to the Notes Database to enter that text would be the business.

 

I'd not thought of the Title Block as a strategy.

 

Is this going to be able to cope with say 50 different "general notes" that I might want in a variety of combinations depending on the sheet?

 

I think it would also mean I'd have to put the notes in a fixed location that was the same on all sheets. That would mean that I couldn't place a general note in such a way that it applied to only one viewport on a sheet with multiple viewports.

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24 minutes ago, grant_PD said:

So playing with the callout tool, I can turn off the bubble, and turn off the leader and the arrow, which just gives me the text.  So I guess you could have a bunch of these callouts laid out for your notes, but you wouldn't get your asterisks unless you manually entered them, or had them as part of the note.  There is a setting to make the first 21 characters of the note be the description, that might help you find them...

 

It would seem like the best thing (I didn't say the fastest thing) would be for VW to allow for a "General Notes Style" where you get to dictate the formatting. 

 

Yes, it seems that a neutered callout object is an option.

 

This wouldn't put multiple notes into a tidy list like the general notes object can.

 

(I don't want the asterisks there - they are only there to replace the numbering I don't want, using a method less cumbersome than the type of thing @Jeff Prince describes)

[line-weight]

35 minutes ago, grant_PD said:

It would seem like the best thing (I didn't say the fastest thing) would be for VW to allow for a "General Notes Style" where you get to dictate the formatting. 

 

Although that would be useful in the long term, the General Notes object first needs to have the simple option of turning off the list numbering. Until that's possible, being able to style it wouldn't help.

 

...Unless you meant a style for callout objects? Yes it would be good to style callout objects.

 

At present I "style" callout objects using dedicated classes which lets me set things like arrowheads. But it doesn't control all aspects.

 

 

Edited February 26 by line-weight

[Jeff Prince]

Let's say the number/letter part of a general note is necessary for the tool to work.

If Vectorworks could add the ability to style the number/letter independent of the body text, you could choose an invisible text style for it or put it on a separate class which you could turn off.

Of course it would be better to have the option to not display the information as part of the formatting, but you know how these things tend to work 🙂

 

[Gadzooks]

Sorry - bit late to the party on this one, but occurred to me that @EAlexander 's suggestion to use symbols could be implemented similarly by using a viewport approach.

 

Ok - nothing is quite like you would ideally want to get from VW atm, but if you had all your 'general' notes on a dedicated layer and then turned them into mini viewports duplicated and placed as many times as you wanted across your sheet layers that would (also) reflect any additional info/changes you later add to them (keeping one eye on the lower crop line so the original info doesn't stray off if added to) it could be a solution for you until the boffins work some magic with Notes? (yawn)

 

On 2/26/2024 at 3:25 PM, Jeff Prince said:

Make a white rectangle and float it over the numbered area of the notes using Draw Order

 

 

Jeff's hi-tech approach can work well with this option as well. You doctor the Notes getting rid (masking parts ) of numbers and anything else not to your liking and even overlaying Bold/Coloured text as headers if that would be preferred. Once you've created a set of 'portable notes' you're pretty much done.

 

Also allows you to add arrows on a sheet by sheet basis using annotations if required.

 

....Just a thought......

 

 

[line-weight]

24 minutes ago, Gadzooks said:

Ok - nothing is quite like you would ideally want to get from VW atm, but if you had all your 'general' notes on a dedicated layer and then turned them into mini viewports duplicated and placed as many times as you wanted across your sheet layers that would (also) reflect any additional info/changes you later add to them (keeping one eye on the lower crop line so the original info doesn't stray off if added to) it could be a solution for you until the boffins work some magic with Notes? (yawn)

 

yes agreed this is an option.

 

In fact this is how I've tended to deal with legends until now too (yet to decide whether to transition to Graphic Legends)

 

As you say, hazards include text getting cropped out unintentionally. And lack of flexibility about things like text column width across different sheets.

 

But really ... all that needs to happen is for the "general Notes" object to have an option not to number the list of items. Maybe I should do this as a wishlist item.