Option to disable classes in sheet layers

[Steve Murray]

Sometimes we have multiple viewport, annotations, notes and symbols in a sheet layer, and having them all visible all the time would be of great benefit to many practices I have been working with.

A kind of all the classes should be visible all the times, while the viewport respond to their own visibility settings.

So an option to remove the concept of classes from the sheet layer, so the elements there are always visible. A sort of WYSIWYG.

 

Edited November 13, 2023 by Steve Murray

[Pat Stanford]

Your title and description don't match in my mind.

 

But I think what you want is the Classes... and Layers... buttons in the Object Info Palette when you have a Viewport selected.  From there you can set the visibilities of specific classes or layers in a viewport. Or you can even override the attributes and all objects that are using Attributes By Class will display the way you the the override.

 

If you want to be able to change the visibility of multiple Viewports at once, take a look at the Visibilities pane of the Organization Dialog Box (upper right corner). You can select multiple viewports in the Viewports pane and then change the visibilities and they will all take on the changes.

 

HTH

[Steve Murray]

Pat I just want all the classes to be visible in the sheet layer all the times.

While obviously the viewport will respond to viewport settings

 

Edited November 13, 2023 by Steve Murray

[Pat Stanford]

No way to do that automatically right now, so you posted in the correct place here on the wish list.

 

 

[Elite Exhibits]

@Steve Murray

 

Try creating a Saved View - 

 

We have been able to print a Sheet Layer as it stands. ie: Classes set for the Drawing and the ViewPort Class Set in the OIP.

and the same Sheet Layer as part of a Saved View controlling the Classes for the Drawing.

     The Save View sets the Classes for the Sheet Layer, NOT for the ViewPort(s) on that Sheet Layer.

 

Publish: Select The Sheet Layer then select this Saved View

 

Peter

[bcd]

Not as automatic as you asked for but quick & easy enough nonetheless:

1. Just create a Viewport Style selecting just Classes and enable them all. Then drop this on your Viewport, or
2. Alternatively when creating the VP, edit Classes, and Opt-Click the visible column. Presto, or
3. You can it globally, by Tools>Organization>Visibilities select all Viewports, enable all Classes.

[Steve Murray]

15 minutes ago, Elite Exhibits said:

@Steve Murray

 

Try creating a Saved View - 

 

We have been able to print a Sheet Layer as it stands. ie: Classes set for the Drawing and the ViewPort Class Set in the OIP.

and the same Sheet Layer as part of a Saved View controlling the Classes for the Drawing.

     The Save View sets the Classes for the Sheet Layer, NOT for the ViewPort(s) on that Sheet Layer.

 

Publish: Select The Sheet Layer then select this Saved View

 

Peter

Thanks Peter I have done that already... I don't need a solution, just wishing for a feature 🙂

[Steve Murray]

16 minutes ago, bcd said:

Not as automatic as you asked for but quick & easy enough nonetheless:

1. Just create a Viewport Style selecting just Classes and enable them all. Then drop this on your Viewport, or
2. Alternatively when creating the VP, edit Classes, and Opt-Click the visible column. Presto, or
3. You can it globally, by Tools>Organization>Visibilities select all Viewports, enable all Classes.

I have done that as well bcd 🙂

The main problem is less experienced users in the various offices...

[bcd]

I'm sure a short script would solve it, but in any case It seems an unusual practice to require all Classes to be turned on in all Viewports.

[Amanda McDermott]

I agree with Steve now that I've understood the request. This is something we come across regularly, we end up writing ourselves a big red note just outside the page boundary on class 0 'SWITCH ON VISIBILITY FOR ALL CLASSES TO ENSURE ALL OF KEY IS VISIBLE'!

 

If the default was that all classes are visible when you enter sheet layer views, that would be very helpful. Perhaps with the option to edit the class visibilities for a particular sheet layer, should you wish for some reason.

[Stefan B.]

Coming from AutoCAD, this was a setting. You could chose weather new classes would be visible in old viewports.

 

I would suggest if this wish get granted, that it indeed is a setting and choice.

 

As it would make no sense for our workflow to have all classes active in all sheet layers. Sometimes, yes, but for the most, no.

[Boh]

I think there is a bit of confusion about this request. As I understand it, it is not about class visibilities in viewports, rather the class visibility settings when you are on a sheet layer. If you draw a line on a sheet layer (but not in a vp annotation), you turn it's class off, it will become invisible. 

 

So if you have objects on different classes on sheet layers and they are not all visible when you go to print then those objects will not appear in your print. This is a potentially dangerous situation, for example, if you issue construction drawings with important information not appearing on your drawings without you realizing it.

 

My workaround to avoid this is to keep all objects on sheet layers on the none class. Any objects with a different class, if not in a design layer, go in VP annotations.

 

So I fully support this request.

 

[Stefan B.]

Ahhh, I misunderstood.

 

But, is not this the reality for all sheet layers and viewports? If the class or layer is not visible it will not print.

 

And if solving the issue is to have everything on None, why not make a class system.

 

SheetStuff-symbols

SheetStuff-lines

SheetStuff-viewports

 

Than all you have to do is to make sure topp class sheetStuff is visible and "all" is visible. The above method requires you to be strict and only put sheetStuff in those classes under sheetStuff topp class.

 

As with the rest of Vectorworks we must have control of what is visible and not, and if not, others make mistakes.

[Steve Murray]

14 hours ago, Amanda McDermott said:

I agree with Steve now that I've understood the request. This is something we come across regularly, we end up writing ourselves a big red note just outside the page boundary on class 0 'SWITCH ON VISIBILITY FOR ALL CLASSES TO ENSURE ALL OF KEY IS VISIBLE'!

 

If the default was that all classes are visible when you enter sheet layer views, that would be very helpful. Perhaps with the option to edit the class visibilities for a particular sheet layer, should you wish for some reason.

It appears you are the only one who understood 😀

[Steve Murray]

13 hours ago, Boh said:

I think there is a bit of confusion about this request. As I understand it, it is not about class visibilities in viewports, rather the class visibility settings when you are on a sheet layer. If you draw a line on a sheet layer (but not in a vp annotation), you turn it's class off, it will become invisible. 

 

So if you have objects on different classes on sheet layers and they are not all visible when you go to print then those objects will not appear in your print. This is a potentially dangerous situation, for example, if you issue construction drawings with important information not appearing on your drawings without you realizing it.

 

My workaround to avoid this is to keep all objects on sheet layers on the none class. Any objects with a different class, if not in a design layer, go in VP annotations.

 

So I fully support this request.

 

Exactly! Thanks!

 

[line-weight]

This often causes me headaches too, and use some of the same strategies as others have posted.

 

I have a saved view that I can use to activate all classes when I arrive at a sheet layer. If I remember to think of it.

 

I also sometimes have those notes outside of the drawing boundary - "remember to activate classes X and Y".

 

In theory yes you can just put all objects in the "none" class but it's very easy to accidentally create an object in another class. Then you come back to the sheet layer and that thing just isn't there. Sometimes this causes a big panic until I realise what's happened.

 

So I too would like the ability to tell VW just to show all classes whenever I'm looking at a sheet layer.

 

I think this has been asked for before, by the way.

[Amanda McDermott]

13 hours ago, Stefan B. said:

And if solving the issue is to have everything on None, why not make a class system.

 

SheetStuff-symbols

SheetStuff-lines

SheetStuff-viewports

 

Than all you have to do is to make sure topp class sheetStuff is visible and "all" is visible. The above method requires you to be strict and only put sheetStuff in those classes under sheetStuff topp class.

The trouble with this and @Boh's /other workarounds for us (apart from being reliant on humans remembering to do things, which isn't always reliable!) is that we often create a key using classes - which works really well because we can use class attributes to ensure the key is up to date. But it does result in invisible key elements sometimes when we've been working in another view and then go to the sheet layer, if we don't remember to switch on all classes before publishing.

[Amanda McDermott]

Does everyone know that to 'upvote' for this request you need to go to the top left of the thread and click the arrow?

 

@bcd @Stefan B. @Boh @line-weight

[Tom W.]

5 minutes ago, Amanda McDermott said:

The trouble with this and @Boh's /other workarounds for us (apart from being reliant on humans remembering to do things, which isn't always reliable!) is that we often create a key using classes - which works really well because we can use class attributes to ensure the key is up to date. But it does result in invisible key elements sometimes when we've been working in another view and then go to the sheet layer, if we don't remember to switch on all classes before publishing.

 

In the meantime @Pat Stanford's script to turn on all classes might make things a little bit easier...

 

Could even assign it to a hotkey. Then rely on Saved Views to get back to the design layer + turn classes back off again.

 

 

[Amanda McDermott]

Just to take this wishlist item further - there are also benefits to vwx keeping the current visible classes so that when you flip back into 'model space' you can pick up where you left off.

 

So, rather than a default 'all classes are on in sheet layers', could there be a pop up when you select a sheet layer that asks 'would you like to switch on all class visibilities?'.

 

This could be in settings as an option - do you want the pop up, or do you want to set either 'retain class visibilities' or 'switch on all class visibilities' as your default when you enter a sheet layer view?

[line-weight]

2 hours ago, Amanda McDermott said:

The trouble with this and @Boh's /other workarounds for us (apart from being reliant on humans remembering to do things, which isn't always reliable!) is that we often create a key using classes - which works really well because we can use class attributes to ensure the key is up to date. But it does result in invisible key elements sometimes when we've been working in another view and then go to the sheet layer, if we don't remember to switch on all classes before publishing.

 

I still agree with your basic request, but the way I deal with keys sometimes is to put them on a design layer, then viewport them into a sheet layer. With that setup you can make the viewport "none" class then control class visibility via viewport OIP.

[Steve Murray]

On 11/14/2023 at 11:08 AM, Amanda McDermott said:

Just to take this wishlist item further - there are also benefits to vwx keeping the current visible classes so that when you flip back into 'model space' you can pick up where you left off.

 

So, rather than a default 'all classes are on in sheet layers', could there be a pop up when you select a sheet layer that asks 'would you like to switch on all class visibilities?'.

 

This could be in settings as an option - do you want the pop up, or do you want to set either 'retain class visibilities' or 'switch on all class visibilities' as your default when you enter a sheet layer view?

Exactly, that's why I wished for a OPTION to disable the classes...

[Boh]

On 11/14/2023 at 10:42 PM, Amanda McDermott said:

we often create a key using classes - which works really well because we can use class attributes to ensure the key is up to date. But it does result in invisible key elements sometimes when we've been working in another view and then go to the sheet layer, if we don't remember to switch on all classes before publishing.

I always put legends in vp annotations for this very reason. It doesn’t matter what the current file class settings are the legend will always publish. Added bonus is that any vp class over rides used will also act on the legend. 

[Amanda McDermott]

16 hours ago, Boh said:

I always put legends in vp annotations for this very reason. It doesn’t matter what the current file class settings are the legend will always publish. Added bonus is that any vp class over rides used will also act on the legend. 

Interesting idea - my hesitation to adopt it would be that sometimes we use viewports within legends, in order that e.g. a tree symbol appears the same scale as it does on the drawing... but if there were no viewports within the legend, this seems sensible.

[Elite Exhibits]

On 11/14/2023 at 4:51 AM, Tom W. said:

Then rely on Saved Views to get back to the design layer + turn classes back off again.

 

Still puzzled on this as Saved Views (as @Tom W. states) are already available and function as requested

 

Peter

[Tom W.]

2 minutes ago, Elite Exhibits said:

 

Still puzzled on this as Saved Views (as @Tom W. states) are already available and function as requested

 

Peter

 

What's being requested is an option that when enabled would make it so that on activating a Sheet Layer, all classes are automatically made visible, then when you leave + go back to a design layer they'd automatically revert to the previous visibilities. So on activating a sheet layer all class invisibilities would be temporarily disabled.