VW24 - Window shows wrong exterior hinge markers

[bjoerka]

I have a window which always shows the wrong hinge markers for exterior and interior display.

When the hinge side is set to left i get was is shown in the screenshots.

When the hinge side is set to right the display of the hinge markers in 3d are correct?

Do is have some wrong settings or is this a problem in vw24?

 

 

[Tom W.]

Are you saying that in the 3D Visualization settings you have the window set up so the marker points towards the handle but in the drawing the marker is pointing towards the hinge instead? If so, I am seeing this too when the configuration is Tilt/Turn! Other configurations are behaving as expected. So sounds like a bug...

[bjoerka]

Yes Tom. These are my settings.

[Tom W.]

Will you submit a bug report?

[Christiaan]

Thanks for spotting this. Honestly I think it's an oversight. This configuration has a bit of history. Tilt n turn windows were added in v2021 but I'm not sure whoever initially coded it actually understood how the window works. I submitted a bug that was fixed in a later version of v2021, which added missing left and right controls. And while I was looking into the issue you've highlighted I noticed that the Tilt n Turn configuration in VW also has In and Out controls. But these controls shouldn't exist, Tilt n Turn window only open inwards.

 

Could be that these problems have existed since the left and right controls were added.

 

The one way that it does work properly is as a Custom Configuration, but alas only if you have multiple sashes.

 

I'll submit a bug report on this today.

[bjoerka]

I´ll look deeper into that tomorrow.

These windows have been created in vw23 and maybe it´s an issue when these are translated into the current version.

 

BTW how do i submit a bug report?

[taoist]

Interesting.

 

Have never seen a casement window open to the inside.

[Tom W.]

1 hour ago, bjoerka said:

I´ll look deeper into that tomorrow.

These windows have been created in vw23 and maybe it´s an issue when these are translated into the current version.

 

I tried creating a tilt + turn window in VW2024 + the hinge markers were the wrong way around as per your post.

 

I tried creating the same window in VW2023 + the markers were the correct way around.

 

1 hour ago, bjoerka said:

BTW how do i submit a bug report?

 

https://www3.vectorworks.net/vectorworks-bug-report (I've got it bookmarked 🤣).

 

50 minutes ago, taoist said:

Have never seen a casement window open to the inside.

 

It's because they're bottom hung as well.

[shertzarch]

1 hour ago, taoist said:

Interesting.

 

Have never seen a casement window open to the inside.

 

They are commercially available if not the most common configuration.

 

In the U.S., Andersen, Marvin, Kolbe and Pella (all major manufacturers) do make them.

Edited October 29, 2023 by shertzarch

[Christiaan]

I've submitted a bug report as follows (VB-200255):

 

Tilt/Turn hinge side not working

1. Create a window with Tilt/Turn configuration (or a Custom Configuration with a single sash set to Tilt/Turn)
2. Try editing the Hinge Side direction, it's stuck on Right
   1. Changing it to Left doesn't change anything in the 3D Preview pane nor the window model itself
   2. It changes correctly if editing a Custom configuration in Custom Configuration Options, but if it's just a single sash the changes aren't made to the 3D Preview pane or the window itself either. It does, however, work if you have multiple Tilt/Turn sashes in a Custom window.
3. When using multiple Tilt/Turn sashes in the Custom window settings, the hinge points in the wrong direction. If I put it on Left, it points right and vice versa.

Tilt/Turn shouldn't have In and Out controls

• While I was looking into the above problem I noticed that the Tilt/Turn configuration has In and Out controls (both as a window on it's own and in the Custom window settings)
• It shouldn't. Tilt/Turn windows only open inwards.

[Christiaan]

2 hours ago, taoist said:

Have never seen a casement window open to the inside.

They used to be the most common in places where external shutters are common, particularly southern Europe.

 

Most inward opening windows these days are tilt n turn I would have thought. Which I personally love, because of the ability to leave them in an open vented position even if it pissing down with rain or, say, if you have kids or pets around who might be tempted to climb out a casement.

[taoist]

Thanks to all for the info.

Will take a look into this.

We use Andersen, Pella, Therma-Tru.

[shertzarch]

On 10/30/2023 at 5:03 PM, taoist said:

Thanks to all for the info.

Will take a look into this.

We use Andersen, Pella, Therma-Tru.

 

They're often termed as 'French Casements' or 'Inswing French Casements.' At least I know that's the terminology that Andersen, Marvin, Pella, etc. use.

 

In my experience, they are not always offered in every product line. They are really handy for situations with true shutters (as Christiaan mentioned) or in my case, the desire to have a combination of casement and double-hung windows with the insect screens consistently located on the exterior.

 

[taoist]

shertzarch,

 

Thank you for the information.

 

Not something typically used here in the USA, at least where we build.

 

I do like the idea though.

[Matt Panzer]

I’ll just put this here  😉

https://unisonwindows.com/products/outswing-tilt-turn/

 

Yes, VERY unusual but there are some of them out there.

[Christiaan]

On 10/29/2023 at 6:35 PM, Christiaan said:

Tilt/Turn shouldn't have In and Out controls

• While I was looking into the above problem I noticed that the Tilt/Turn configuration has In and Out controls (both as a window on it's own and in the Custom window settings)
• It shouldn't. Tilt/Turn windows only open inwards.

Turns out I was wrong:
https://unisonwindows.com/products/outswing-tilt-turn/

 

A US company called Unison makes outward opening Tilt Turn windows. Ruins the ability to leave them open in a venting position when it's raining but somebody makes them! Trust the Americans 😆

Quote

 

OUTSWING TILT & TURN

Unison has collaborated with UBC’s Wood Science Department and the German Rosenheim Wood Technology University to develop a unique wood window system tailoring European technology to answer North America’s call for Outswing Tilt and Turn windows.

Outswing Tilt and Turn windows keep interior spaces functional while the windows are open, and allow for proper fit and function of curtains, blinds, screens and other window treatments, designed to suit our North American lifestyle.

The Out-Swing Tilt+Turn Window has been independently tested to the NAFS standards and has reached impressive results for a window sized 3’-2” wide x 7’-8” tall. It has successfully achieved a PG50 grade with the following air-water-structural ratings: A3, B7 (720Pa or 15 psf), C3 (3600Pa or 75 psf). Furthermore, thermal simulation testing to the CSA A440.2-09 standards have shown that the Tilt+Turn window can achieve a metric U-value as low as 1.20 W/m2K with triple glazing.

Hardware design permits a single handle that enables the window to tilt at the top for draft-free ventilation or turn outward like a traditional casement window. Its multiple concealed locking points provides superior stability and protection. Unison’s unique manufacturing capabilities provide architects and designers with the freedom to select complementing interior wood species and finishes, which tie in seamlessly with other interior elements such as flooring and cabinetry.

 

 

[line-weight]

How strange. The perfect way to direct rain straight into your house.

[Matt Panzer]

Strange indeed!  I admit, the existence of those windows was not known when the new handing features were designed.  The reason the control was put here was to provide the same flexibility as in previous versions where they could be flipped any which way.  It also made forward translating files more logical when files had them flipped to open out.  Other reasons are that you never know every possible case out there and the in/out control keeps that configuration consistent with all of the other configurations.