Doors and Windows not Creating Holes in Walls

[Anelisa]

Hi! 

I had created a model with windows and doors and it looked all fine. As soon as I section viewported this in order to draft on a sheet later, I have this situation. 

I have tried re-drawing and I keep getting this issue. I'm not understanding why this is happening.

 

I am using Vectorworks Design 2023 trial with MacOS Monterey Version 12.3.1

 

Please help! 

[Matt Panzer]

13 hours ago, rDesign said:

Question Back: I'm not sure I understand the difference you're describing in your "Note: Resetting the Door and Window objects always shows the holes for us - both before and after the Repair."

 

Yes.  Resetting the doors and windows always fixes in all files I've tested.  It's the few cases where resetting the wall does not that had me even more curious.

 

13 hours ago, rDesign said:

By 'Resetting the Door and Window Objects' are you referring to Tools -> Utilities -> Reset All Plug-ins ? I have not been doing this, as I don't know if it is resetting more than I want -- and it would be a pain to keep re-choosing my Preferences every day.

 

(That we're seeing different outcomes in our steps-to-fix makes me concerned that this issue won't be resolved in SP4.)

 

Here's the steps I take to restore my wall holes. So far *fingers crossed* this has always fixed the issue for me, however temporarily, as it happens about once a day at least.

1. When I see some of my doors / windows have lost their wall holes, I switch to a top / plan view (don't know why), save the file and quit Vectorworks.
2. I quit all other applications and open up the Vw 2023 Updater app and click the Advanced Options + button and select 'Repair'.
3. Once it's complete, I restart my Mac. (Sometimes if I'm not in a hurry I run Onyx which is a macOS maintenance app, but it takes a long time).
4. After my Mac has restarted, I open Vw 2023 and open my file. 
5. I switch back to the DL with the bad door / window, select a 3D view and either -
   1. Select the door / window and Move it 0,0 -or-
   2. Select the door / window and on the OIP click Settings... I don't change anything and just click OK.
6. Either option results in the door / window redrawing and the window holes reappear.
7. If there are multiple windows / doors in a wall that are missing holes, all openings in that hosted wall will be fixed by the above steps.
8. If there are other openings in other affected walls, I have to repeat the above for that hosted wall. Meaning that fixing one door / window in the file will not fix all openings unless they are on the same hosted wall.

 

Note: I don't think that the spinning Beach Ball I've been getting is related to this issue. I think it's just that Vw gets laggy for whatever reason.

 

Thank you for the detailed steps!

If resetting the doors and windows bring the holes back before the repair, why do you do the repair?  Is it that you think it keeps the problem from returning for longer?

 

UPDATE on the repaired files reported by the Installer Repair: 

We examined the repair logs and the files repaired by the repair function should not have an effect on anything.  Apparently these files are python cache files that cause the repair function to replace certain files.  This is a known bug and should have no effect on how Vectorworks runs.  If you are seeing a clear difference in behavior after following your steps, maybe try skipping the Repair step and see what happens.  It could be that restarting Vectorworks or your Mac is helping.

 

Regarding VW 2023 SP4:  We're confident that you will not have this issue in SP4 because the wall is looking for these cases and fixing them on the fly.  I've been pushing on this mainly because I want to see if we can sort out why the wall hole geometry gets in that state (where the wall cannot use it).  But, as I said, the wall will rebuild the geometry on the fly to fix the issue.

[rDesign]

34 minutes ago, Matt Panzer said:

Thank you for the detailed steps!

If resetting the doors and windows bring the holes back before the repair, why do you do the repair?  Is it that you think it keeps the problem from returning for longer?

Sorry but I have NOT been resetting the walls using the Tools -> Utilities-> Reset All Plug-ins.
 

I have ONLY been running the Vw Updater Repair using the steps I described, and that has worked for me.

[zoomer]

3 hours ago, Matt Panzer said:

Regarding VW 2023 SP4:  We're confident that you will not have this issue in SP4 because the wall is looking for these cases and fixing them on the fly.  I've been pushing on this mainly because I want to see if we can sort out why the wall hole geometry gets in that state (where the wall cannot use it).  But, as I said, the wall will rebuild the geometry on the fly to fix the issue.

 

 

I still can't get @line-weight's initial demo geometry out of my mind.

It was one Wall with a Door and two Window Openings that do not show up.

 

But that Wall was such bad/broken geometry when exported by DWG.

 

And more interesting, when I drag copy that broken Wall including Inserts,

VW "auto repairs" the copyied Wall !

So then Wall Openings are fine as well as the Wall's Solid, looks better in VW

and exports as a proper ACIS Solid to DWG.

 

And I think that auto repair from copying is just the same than the proposed

"move Window by 0,0,0" that seems to force recalculation of the Wall.

 

 

And I am more irritated what is exactly causing the Walls getting corrupt,

inserted PIOs, Wall Closures, Wall Components or Wall Connections ?

 

[Matt Panzer]

4 hours ago, rDesign said:

Sorry but I have NOT been resetting the walls using the Tools -> Utilities-> Reset All Plug-ins.
 

I have ONLY been running the Vw Updater Repair using the steps I described, and that has worked for me.

 

But I thought you said moving a door or window brings the holes back even before running the repair. I'm just trying to nail down what you're seeing different after the repair is done.

[rDesign]

On 1/27/2023 at 4:19 PM, rDesign said:

Update to my previous post -- I just had this happen again, and this time running the command Tools > Utilities > Reset all Plug-Ins did NOT fix the window openings. The other suggested means to fix it did not work either. See attached file.

 

Back to the drawing board...

bad-window-test.vwx 6.84 MB · 4 downloads

 

2 hours ago, Matt Panzer said:

But I thought you said moving a door or window brings the holes back even before running the repair. I'm just trying to nail down what you're seeing different after the repair is done.

 

Matt - No. Moving a door or window does NOT bring back the holes for me. (It has worked for others in this thread, but never for me). The ONLY consistent fix for me has been to run Vw 2023 Updater Repair. 

 

See my previous post from 1/27/2023 (quoted above) where I said that even the suggested Tools -> Utilities -> Reset all Plug-ins did NOT fix the openings for me: That's why I have NOT been doing that, it didn't work for me when I tried it. 

 

Just to clarify:

1) Just moving windows or doors: NO -- does NOT work;

2) Tools -> Utilities -> Reset all Plug-ins: NO --  did NOT work when I tried before;

3) Running Vw 2023 Updater + Repair first and then moving windows / doors 0,0: YES - consistently works

 

[rDesign]

7 hours ago, Matt Panzer said:

If you are seeing a clear difference in behavior after following your steps, maybe try skipping the Repair step and see what happens.  It could be that restarting Vectorworks or your Mac is helping.

 

The next time it happens, I will try what you suggest here.

[Matt Panzer]

5 hours ago, rDesign said:

 

 

Matt - No. Moving a door or window does NOT bring back the holes for me. (It has worked for others in this thread, but never for me). The ONLY consistent fix for me has been to run Vw 2023 Updater Repair. 

 

See my previous post from 1/27/2023 (quoted above) where I said that even the suggested Tools -> Utilities -> Reset all Plug-ins did NOT fix the openings for me: That's why I have NOT been doing that, it didn't work for me when I tried it. 

 

Just to clarify:

1) Just moving windows or doors: NO -- does NOT work;

2) Tools -> Utilities -> Reset all Plug-ins: NO --  did NOT work when I tried before;

3) Running Vw 2023 Updater + Repair first and then moving windows / doors 0,0: YES - consistently works

 

Ah.  Thank you for clarifying!

[Matt Panzer]

5 hours ago, rDesign said:

 

The next time it happens, I will try what you suggest here.

Thank you.  This will be a very good test.  If the holes come back with doing the repair, at least we’ll know it has nothing to do with the installation.

If the wall holes do not come back after that, you could also try renaming the Vectorworks User folder so it creates a new one. If there is no change, you can delete the newly created user folder and rename the old one back so it uses that.  However, if the holes do come back, the next step would be to zip the old user file you renamed and send it to me.  I would then try using that user folder to see if I can reproduce the issue on my computer.

[rDesign]

9 minutes ago, Matt Panzer said:

Thank you.  This will be a very good test.  If the holes come back with doing the repair, at least we’ll know it has nothing to do with the installation.

If the wall holes do not come back after that, you could also try renaming the Vectorworks User folder so it creates a new one. If there is no change, you can delete the newly created user folder and rename the old one back so it uses that.  However, if the holes do come back, the next step would be to zip the old user file you renamed and send it to me.  I would then try using that user folder to see if I can reproduce the issue on my computer.

Thanks Matt. I just uninstalled & reinstalled Vw 2023 this afternoon because my Select Similar tool stopped working today, so maybe doing that will also help with my wall hole issues.
 

I left my previous User folder in place, but if the wall hole issue comes back I’ll try doing what you suggest above.

[Matt Panzer]

9 hours ago, rDesign said:

Thanks Matt. I just uninstalled & reinstalled Vw 2023 this afternoon because my Select Similar tool stopped working today, so maybe doing that will also help with my wall hole issues.
 

I left my previous User folder in place, but if the wall hole issue comes back I’ll try doing what you suggest above.

 

That's concerning about the Select Similar tool.  I assume reinstalling took care of it?  I wonder if any of these issues are causes by low memory.  Anyway, do keep us posted.

[Tom W.]

5 minutes ago, Matt Panzer said:

 

That's concerning about the Select Similar tool.  I assume reinstalling took care of it?  I wonder if any of these issues are causes by low memory.  Anyway, do keep us posted.

 

Hopefully @rDesign will confirm but from the other thread it sounded like it was the settings being used:

[zoomer]

13 hours ago, rDesign said:

my Select Similar tool stopped working today,

 

Too many Filters ....

E.g. you have by "Symbol Name" Filter activated, but try to select something that is not a Symbol ....

[Matt Panzer]

4 hours ago, Tom W. said:

 

Hopefully @rDesign will confirm but from the other thread it sounded like it was the settings being used:

 

50 minutes ago, zoomer said:

 

Too many Filters ....

E.g. you have by "Symbol Name" Filter activated, but try to select something that is not a Symbol ....

 

Ah.  Thanks.  That makes sense.

[rDesign]

1 hour ago, zoomer said:

 

Too many Filters ....

E.g. you have by "Symbol Name" Filter activated, but try to select something that is not a Symbol ....

 

18 minutes ago, Matt Panzer said:

 

 

Ah.  Thanks.  That makes sense.

 

Exactly right - it was my user error. I had lost all of my Select Similar Saved settings (probably because I Reset All Plug-ins), and I relied on those Saved sets because I didn't have to think about what I was selecting, I could just choose my Saved Selection Set.

 

Anyways, it's working again. Now I just have to recreate the Saved Selection Sets that I lost. 

[zoomer]

1 hour ago, rDesign said:

Now I just have to recreate the Saved Selection Sets that I lost. 

 

Maybe you can make use of one of my Select Similar Settings :

 

Select Similar Settings.zip

 

(/Users/YourName/Library/Application Support/Vectorworks/2023/Settings/)

Edited February 24, 2023 by zoomer

[rDesign]

@zoomer - thank you! That's very generous - much appreciated!

[Matt Panzer]

How many of you with these wall hole issues regularly use Multi View?

I'm not sure if there's a connection, but worth asking. 🙂 

[rDesign]

6 minutes ago, Matt Panzer said:

How many of you with these wall hole issues regularly use Multi View?

I'm not sure if there's a connection, but worth asking. 🙂 

I do not use Multi-view.

[zoomer]

I do only use single view.

And have not experienced any Wall Holes issues so far,

but so far I only had little VW 2023 experience with inserting

Doors and Windows in Walls though ....

 

I am still at the IFC overlay Wall redrawing

(which works good so far at Component Connections)

but still IFC Windows to remake by VW Inserts ....

 

So not really helpful ....

[line-weight]

I occasionally use a floating pane but not often because it causes various things to mess up.

 

I couldn't be 100% sure but I don't think I was using it when I had the window hole problems.

[Matt Panzer]

Thanks for your feedback!

[rDesign]

@Matt Panzer - OK, so it just happened again to me, a window in a wall stopped cutting its opening right after I inserted a 2d/3d symbol in said wall.

 

Steps Taken:

1) Without quitting Vw, I just tried moving the Window 0,0. No good, the opening still didn't cut the wall.

2) Next I quit Vw and without restarting my Mac, I reopened Vw 2023.

3) I opened the file, moved the Window 0,0 and voila! the Window is now cutting the wall opening.

 

So in this one instance, I was able to fix the wall opening just by restarting Vw 2023 and moving the Wall 0,0. I didn't have to do anything else. It seems that you are correct and that using the Vw Updater Repair was not doing anything.

 

 

[Matt Panzer]

16 hours ago, rDesign said:

@Matt Panzer - OK, so it just happened again to me, a window in a wall stopped cutting its opening right after I inserted a 2d/3d symbol in said wall.

 

Steps Taken:

1) Without quitting Vw, I just tried moving the Window 0,0. No good, the opening still didn't cut the wall.

2) Next I quit Vw and without restarting my Mac, I reopened Vw 2023.

3) I opened the file, moved the Window 0,0 and voila! the Window is now cutting the wall opening.

 

So in this one instance, I was able to fix the wall opening just by restarting Vw 2023 and moving the Wall 0,0. I didn't have to do anything else. It seems that you are correct and that using the Vw Updater Repair was not doing anything.

 

Thank you  for posting this, Tim!

This information helps us to eliminate certain areas (like a corrupt installation) and may even get us to the point of recreating the issue.  I assume you have not been able to reproduce the problem by removing that symbol in the wall in reinserting it?

[rDesign]

9 minutes ago, Matt Panzer said:

 

Thank you  for posting this, Tim!

This information helps us to eliminate certain areas (like a corrupt installation) and may even get us to the point of recreating the issue.  I assume you have not been able to reproduce the problem by removing that symbol in the wall in reinserting it?

 

I just tested this and yes I was able to reproduce the window not cutting that wall. This was right after I started Vw this morning, so I had only been working in Vw / and this file long enough to reproduce this ~ less than 10 minutes.

 

My memory app shows that I still have 2.5GB of RAM free (used 13.5GB of 16GB total). So I don't think it's related to lack of RAM or Vw not correctly releasing RAM.

 

Steps to reproduce:

1. I moved the 2d/3d symbol out of the wall, deselected it, and moved it back into the wall in the same position.
2. Switched to 3d view on DL to make sure the window opening was still being cut: It was.
3. Switched to SL of the exterior elevation with that wall, updated the SLVP - still good, window cutting wall.
4. Switched to SL with interior elevations including that wall (but not that window), updated the (4) SLVPs - still good, (but might not know since the window was not on this sheet);
5. Switched to SL with interior elevations including that wall AND that window, updated the (4) SLVPs - still good;
6. Switched back to DL with that symbol, dragged it out of the wall and cut it (CMD-X). I did NOT reinsert the symbol back into the wall;
7. Switched back to SL of exterior elevation with that wall (now WITHOUT that symbol), updated the SLVP = NO GOOD, now window is not cutting wall opening.

To repair it:

1. I quit Vw and immediately started Vw back up without rebooting my Mac.
2. Opened the file, and moved the window 0,0 and the wall updated and now the window opening is being cut.

[Matt Panzer]

1 hour ago, rDesign said:

 

I just tested this and yes I was able to reproduce the window not cutting that wall. This was right after I started Vw this morning, so I had only been working in Vw / and this file long enough to reproduce this ~ less than 10 minutes.

 

My memory app shows that I still have 2.5GB of RAM free (used 13.5GB of 16GB total). So I don't think it's related to lack of RAM or Vw not correctly releasing RAM.

 

Steps to reproduce:

1. I moved the 2d/3d symbol out of the wall, deselected it, and moved it back into the wall in the same position.
2. Switched to 3d view on DL to make sure the window opening was still being cut: It was.
3. Switched to SL of the exterior elevation with that wall, updated the SLVP - still good, window cutting wall.
4. Switched to SL with interior elevations including that wall (but not that window), updated the (4) SLVPs - still good, (but might not know since the window was not on this sheet);
5. Switched to SL with interior elevations including that wall AND that window, updated the (4) SLVPs - still good;
6. Switched back to DL with that symbol, dragged it out of the wall and cut it (CMD-X). I did NOT reinsert the symbol back into the wall;
7. Switched back to SL of exterior elevation with that wall (now WITHOUT that symbol), updated the SLVP = NO GOOD, now window is not cutting wall opening.

To repair it:

1. I quit Vw and immediately started Vw back up without rebooting my Mac.
2. Opened the file, and moved the window 0,0 and the wall updated and now the window opening is being cut.

 

This is VERY promising news!!!

Can you please send me the Vectorworks file and tell me which wall and symbol to remove and put back?